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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #11  
Old 2nd November 2009, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GoSeminoles! View Post
Isn't interesting that the things Yahweh never mentioned in the Bible (e.g., dolphins, DNA, electrons, etc.) always happen to be the same things the Bronze Age authors of the Bible could not have known about?

Duh, that's because God was speaking to Bronze Age primitives on morality and spirituality. What possible reason could He have for dumping naturalistic knowledge on them? It would have been totally irrelevant His goals.
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  #12  
Old 2nd November 2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GoSeminoles! View Post
Isn't interesting that the things Yahweh never mentioned in the Bible (e.g., dolphins, DNA, electrons, etc.) always happen to be the same things the Bronze Age authors of the Bible could not have known about?
Dolphins:
"'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales--whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water--you are to detest." (Leviticus 11:9-10)

DNA:
"because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor." (Hebrews 7:10)

"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth;" (Acts 17:26)

"Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:11,12)

"So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:21)

"And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:25)

Electrons:
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Hebrews 11:3)

"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness." (Genesis 1:3-4)

"Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;" (Job 38:25)

(Lightning sends out leaders, then travels along this path.)


Other things in the Bible not discovered till later:

Ocean Currents:
"...whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas." (Psalm 8:8)
Discovered by Matthew Maury, who sought out what it referred to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fontaine_Maury

Wind Circulation:
"The wind goes toward the south,
And turns around to the north;
The wind whirls about continually,
And comes again on its circuit." (Ecclesiastes 1:6)


That Air Has a Weight:
"To establish a weight for the wind,
And apportion the waters by measure." (Job 28:25)

The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth

Evaporation and the Water Cycle:
"He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
He makes lightning for the rain;
He brings the wind out of His treasuries." (Psalm 135:7)

"When He utters His voice,
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
'And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth.
He makes lightning for the rain,
He brings the wind out of His treasuries.'" (Jeremiah 10:13)

"For He draws up drops of water,
Which distill as rain from the mist,
Which the clouds drop down
And pour abundantly on man.
Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds,
The thunder from His canopy?" (Job 36:27-29)

"All the rivers run into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full;
To the place from which the rivers come,
There they return again." (Ecclesiastes 1:7)

The Sphericity of the Earth:
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." (Isaiah 40:22)

Nuclear Processes:
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." (2 Peter 3:10)
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  #13  
Old 2nd November 2009, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by laconicstudent View Post
Duh, that's because God was speaking to Bronze Age primitives on morality and spirituality. What possible reason could He have for dumping naturalistic knowledge on them? It would have been totally irrelevant His goals.
Sure, but it's also interesting that much of the so-called morality Yahweh handed down back then is frankly immoral by today's standards. The OT condones slavery, the killing disobedient children, witches, and gays. Anyone doing those things today would be jailed thankfully.

Any set of moral edicts given to us by a allegedly morally perfect being should itself be perfect. Yet, clearly by most standards modern morality is far superior to what Yahweh handed down. This suggests to me that the morality content of the OT was also created by Bronze Age people, not a god.
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  #14  
Old 2nd November 2009, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by catzrfluffy;53396135
[SIZE=2
The Sphericity of the Earth:[/size]
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." (Isaiah 40:22)

Nuclear Processes:
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." (2 Peter 3:10)
Its very easy to read into scripture what was never intended. Especailly when you snip out lines of scripture from their context.

1. A circle is 2-dimensional; it is not a sphere. The Hebrews had a word for "ball," which could have been used here.

2. The "elements" here are NOT what we call elements today.
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  #15  
Old 2nd November 2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LifeToTheFullest! View Post
I don't know if dolphins do, but clearly, all dogs go to heaven.
Only if you're Catholic

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  #16  
Old 3rd November 2009, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Wedjat View Post
In your opinion, do dolphins have souls? If so, will we see them in Heaven (or Hell)?
Life in Heaven would be pretty much non-life and totally boring with out Dolphins and other critters about.

Of course Dolphins have souls. The soul of every being is an activity of God.

.
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  #17  
Old 4th November 2009, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wedjat View Post
Only if you're Catholic

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  #18  
Old 4th November 2009, 03:38 PM
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Well according to Revelation
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Their won't be any sea around for them. So if there are any, they'll have to be kept in pools, no swimming out in the sea.
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Luke 10:27 (Love God Above All, And Your Neighbor as yourself)
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 7:12 (Do unto others)
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 5:43-48 (Pray for those that persecute you)
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luke 6:27-29 (Love your enemies.)
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.


Originally Posted by Saint Augustine
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If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books.
Isaiah 8:12-13 (NIV) "Do not call conspiracy everything that these people call conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it. The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread."


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Old 4th November 2009, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LifeToTheFullest! View Post
What textbook is that AV? I submit to you that this is your "infallable interpretation," is it not?
That's what we would call "sound doctrine."
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Old 4th November 2009, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
That's what we would call "sound doctrine."
Seriously, don't start this up again.

LightSeaker-
Do you think animals (like dolphins) are subject to going to hell as well?
Dolphins kill for sport, sometimes even their own young. Chimps will occasionally pull a baby (chimp or human, documented incidents in both cases) from it's mothers arms and devour it. They (dolphins especially) are smart enough to "know better" it's clearly more of a cultural thing, but sin doesn't know culture does it?

But what about animals who clearly aren't sentient. Crabs practice cannibalism, there are jellyfish that kill people, not out of malice, but just as a reaction. Is that considered a "sin"?

Where is the line drawn?
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