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31st October 2009, 01:22 AM
|  | Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church
     
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Where did this idea originate, and is it over used?
I never hear this phrase as a Catholic before. I became a baptist, and then all of a sudden...Jesus must be accepted as our "PERSONAL SAVIOR"....now that I am Presbyterian, after a lot of study, that's to me is a selfish request....am I wrong?
Thankyou brothers and sisters for any info/answers you can provide.
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31st October 2009, 01:42 AM
|  | Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
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Reps: 398,724,314,321,260,160 (power: 398,724,314,321,270) | | | Properly speaking, the phrase is true. But I don't like to describe one's relationship with Christ like that so much because the way it reads detracts, in my opinion, from the oneness of all the members of the Body in union with the Head. To me it suggests "Me and God" instead of "Us and God." |
31st October 2009, 01:51 AM
| | Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church
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I have a problem with personal savior...is that biblical? I know He is my savior...but my PERSONAL savior?
I don't get it...it seems very secular a concept, why not just be my Savior?
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31st October 2009, 02:16 AM
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Reps: 36,661,185,937,442,840 (power: 36,661,185,937,445) | | | I wouldnt deny that he is our personal savior but there is something missing there, it is Lord. Jesus is not just a savior but Lord and Savior. I don't believe one has a saving relationship with Jesus unless he acknowledges Jesus as Lord and Savior. It's not like a cafeteria line where you can say "id like some saviorhood but no lordship today" And unfortunately, that is exactly what Satan is using to propagate his damning lies in the Church today
__________________ . "If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true." Spurgeon |
31st October 2009, 02:33 AM
|  | Serving His Flock
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Reps: 12,668,365,307,271,228 (power: 12,668,365,307,275) | | Originally Posted by NRB  Ok thanks MrPolo.
I have a problem with personal savior...is that biblical? I know He is my savior...but my PERSONAL savior?
I don't get it...it seems very secular a concept, why not just be my Savior?
No it is very Biblical but misunderstood. The word "personal" is used to distinguish between true Christian doctrine and the apostate Unitarian doctrine of salvation for all regardless of personal choice.
The term personal also goes back to the OT and what redemption truly means. If you are not familiar with redemption in the legal sense, and I certainly hope that you are because it is a very beautiful concept given us by God, I will give it a brief run down.
Redemption is this, whenever any item is sold under Jewish law there is also a redemption clause which would enable the only the head of the family who sold the item; whether it be land, animals or slaves, they would be able to buy them back at a price equal to the original payment minus the number of years left to jubilee; where the item would be given back to the originating family's head. In the case of a slave, if a man were to marry while he was a slave, the wife he had would be the slave of the master also, yet the man if he were redeemed by a kinsman redeemer would have to make a choice of whether or not to stay a slave and remain with his wife, or accept his redemption (salvation as it is also called) from his kinsman (which could only save his family member) hence personal savior, as the kinsman could not buy anybody back but his family member.
So it is this way then, that while Christ is the Savior of all those who choose Him, He alone is the only one who can buy you back which makes Him your personal savior. You do not have to accept His offer just like men who were offered redemption could choose to remain a slave just as they were, but you also cannot ride in on somebody else's coat tales either. You have to make the choice for yourself, nobody can do it for you.
The real problem is not the concept of a personal savior, but a personal god! I left the "g" lowercase on purpose, many people have this "thought" about who God is, and after a discussion of any length you will find many of them really have made God in their image. Hannah got it right when she said that He is the God of absolutely everything (YHWH), He is the god of water and fire, the god of light and dark, the god of broccoli and green beans, the god of dogs and cats; I could go on but I hope you get the point. The god they serve is not big enough, they like to put him in a little box and pull him out and put him on a table and make a wish on him as though he were some kind of genie, they do not understand that to even try and describe Him with any human language is to do a disservice to His Holiness and Glory.
Sorry for the rant, I am not trying to hijack the thread, I just feel that because people have made personal gods that has made the concept of a personal savior seem "pop culturish" and totally diminished its true impactful meaning.
Your Brother
rc
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31st October 2009, 02:55 AM
| | Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church
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Reps: 187,207,274,281,724,320 (power: 187,207,274,281,731) | | Originally Posted by rcorlew No it is very Biblical but misunderstood. The word "personal" is used to distinguish between true Christian doctrine and the apostate Unitarian doctrine of salvation for all regardless of personal choice.
The term personal also goes back to the OT and what redemption truly means. If you are not familiar with redemption in the legal sense, and I certainly hope that you are because it is a very beautiful concept given us by God, I will give it a brief run down.
Redemption is this, whenever any item is sold under Jewish law there is also a redemption clause which would enable the only the head of the family who sold the item; whether it be land, animals or slaves, they would be able to buy them back at a price equal to the original payment minus the number of years left to jubilee; where the item would be given back to the originating family's head. In the case of a slave, if a man were to marry while he was a slave, the wife he had would be the slave of the master also, yet the man if he were redeemed by a kinsman redeemer would have to make a choice of whether or not to stay a slave and remain with his wife, or accept his redemption (salvation as it is also called) from his kinsman (which could only save his family member) hence personal savior, as the kinsman could not buy anybody back but his family member.
So it is this way then, that while Christ is the Savior of all those who choose Him, He alone is the only one who can buy you back which makes Him your personal savior. You do not have to accept His offer just like men who were offered redemption could choose to remain a slave just as they were, but you also cannot ride in on somebody else's coat tales either. You have to make the choice for yourself, nobody can do it for you.
The real problem is not the concept of a personal savior, but a personal god! I left the "g" lowercase on purpose, many people have this "thought" about who God is, and after a discussion of any length you will find many of them really have made God in their image. Hannah got it right when she said that He is the God of absolutely everything (YHWH), He is the god of water and fire, the god of light and dark, the god of broccoli and green beans, the god of dogs and cats; I could go on but I hope you get the point. The god they serve is not big enough, they like to put him in a little box and pull him out and put him on a table and make a wish on him as though he were some kind of genie, they do not understand that to even try and describe Him with any human language is to do a disservice to His Holiness and Glory.
Sorry for the rant, I am not trying to hijack the thread, I just feel that because people have made personal gods that has made the concept of a personal savior seem "pop culturish" and totally diminished its true impactful meaning.
Your Brother
rc
OK that makes complete sense thankyou....I believe my aversion to "personal savior" is due to the fact that a lot of people now a days take that to mean Jesus is their own best friend, a personal buddy, GOD is our personal person so to speak. I'm not sure what I am trying to convey, but the whole personal thing seems so misconstrued and pompous now in the church today.
I tried ONCE AND ONLY ONCE to testify using the term to a friend of mine who is agnostic.
I said...once I accepted that Jesus Christ my Lord is my personal savior....the person immediately stated..."YOUR personal savior? Not mine? What's that supposed to mean?"
IT's a messed up statement used all too often now to make someone feel righteous in the eyes of themselves IMHO.
Since that encounter I have always stated flat out that Jesus Christ is the/your ONLY Savior.
Thankyou.
Last edited by LiturgyInDMinor; 31st October 2009 at 03:00 AM.
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31st October 2009, 03:35 AM
|  | the electric lizard returns
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Reps: 485,727,007,596,844,352 (power: 485,727,007,596,854) | | | i am not sure of it's first usage, but believe it was first used in the great american awakening. If I can find the reference, I will post it.
Steve
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Blessed is the one coming in the name of ha’shem - בּרוּךְ הַבָּא בְּשֵׁם יְיָ
Now to Him who is able to keep you from falling..... be glory, majesty, dominion and authority for ever. (Jude)
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31st October 2009, 05:34 AM
|  | Do I dig the hole before, or after?
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31st October 2009, 05:51 AM
|  | Exercise daily -- walk with the Lord.
 
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14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Rev 3:
18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
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Last edited by DArceri; 31st October 2009 at 05:59 AM.
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31st October 2009, 06:04 AM
|  | Future Sailor.
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Reps: 210,693,748,045,869,408 (power: 210,693,748,045,886) | | Originally Posted by NRB Ok thanks MrPolo.
I have a problem with personal savior...is that biblical? I know He is my savior...but my PERSONAL savior?
I don't get it...it seems very secular a concept, why not just be my Savior?
In my not so delicately phrased opinion, the "personal" bit borders on the Hinduism and/or pagan more than anything.
I don't get it either since it was one of many things that kept me from ever becoming a Protestant.
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