Except the part where it celebrates Jesus' birthday.
Who cares if it's in the middle of December or if you put up a tree with sparkly objects on it? The main point of the celebration is to celebrate the birth of Christ. The date was chosen to be December 25th because it's close to the Winter solstice. It was done to make conversion for the pagans easier. So what?
So what? It has NOTHING to do with Yeshua. And...one must ask...why do we celebrate the birth of Yeshua? His birth makes him no different than you or I...and a birthday is something we celebrate when that person is alive on this planet. What made him special is that he ROSE. So...it makes sense to me that we would celebrate his resurrection...in which we put our hope.
Since the Pagans were converted...why do we continue this? Oh...and btw...can you think of anything else the Catholic Church did to make the conversion of the Pagans "easier"? I can think of several things that Catholics don't like to talk about. Why...in the name of God...would Rome had been interested in converting Pagans? Hint: love isn't the answer.
CC
__________________ It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. -Gal 5:1 (NIV)
what a celebration is about depends entirely on what you choose to celebrate during that time. celebrations are not set things. i can choose celebrate the birth of Jesus, good-will, capitalism, or pickles on december 25th. i can choose to celebrate them tomorrow if i so please.
i don't understand the problem you have with celebrations.
but i do understand your concerns about the nation moving away from God. i don't think attacking christmas is the right way to go though.
'
My neighbor denies Yeshua rose from the dead and was the son of God...yet celebrates Christmas like no other. He decks his yard out with Christmas decor that cost him thousands of dollars. He spoils his grandkids with all kinds of presents. I was at Home Depot the 1st week of October and they were putting up the Christmas isle. See...this has NOTHING to do with Yeshua. If you look at the OT feasts....who decided on those? God commanded them to be observed. Christmas is a Catholic invention...an invention of man. The Catholic Church was concerned with getting money to Rome...not with the spirituality of individuals. They didn't allow Christmas or Easter because they really wanted Pagans to be saved and be reconciled with God. So...where are we today? I'm not saying don't celebrate Christmas...I'm saying that the act of observing Christmas doesn't please God anymore than me observing a Dallas Cowboys game. Most of the people who celebrate Christmas are far from God IMHO.
CC
__________________ It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. -Gal 5:1 (NIV)
So what? It has NOTHING to do with Yeshua. And...one must ask...why do we celebrate the birth of Yeshua? His birth makes him no different than you or I...and a birthday is something we celebrate when that person is alive on this planet. What made him special is that he ROSE. So...it makes sense to me that we would celebrate his resurrection...in which we put our hope.
Since the Pagans were converted...why do we continue this? Oh...and btw...can you think of anything else the Catholic Church did to make the conversion of the Pagans "easier"? I can think of several things that Catholics don't like to talk about. Why...in the name of God...would Rome had been interested in converting Pagans? Hint: love isn't the answer.
CC
First, "Jesus" has been the standard English use for Yehoshua bar Mariam, called Christ, for 1000 years.
Second, the importance of the Incarnation to Christian theology is very difficult to overstate. We celebrate the day when God become Man was born as one of us. (Look up the carols "Once in Royal David's City and "O Little Town of Bethlehem" and read the full multi-verse texts, to get a sense of the importance of the Incarnation.)
Third, those who celebrate Christmas as a Christian festival also celebrate Easter, the annual feast of the Resurrection, and Sunday, the weekly feast of the Resurrection.
Fourth, the significance of the coming of Christ at the time when the (Northern Hemisphere) days are just beginning to lengthen has profound symbolism for many, as was noted in earlier posts by others.
__________________
"It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves." -Jesus
First, "Jesus" has been the standard English use for Yehoshua bar Mariam, called Christ, for 1000 years.
Yeah...but that doesn't make it right. Yehoshua...or Yeshua for short translates DIRECTLY to Joshua. I don't make this stuff up. We're calling him by a name that isn't his! When Maria comes to our country from Mexico...we either continue to call her Maria...or we call her Mary. We don't cally her Melissa.
Second, the importance of the Incarnation to Christian theology is very difficult to overstate. We celebrate the day when God become Man was born as one of us. (Look up the carols "Once in Royal David's City and "O Little Town of Bethlehem" and read the full multi-verse texts, to get a sense of the importance of the Incarnation.)
Fine...but this celebration (or feast) is not God-sanctioned.
Third, those who celebrate Christmas as a Christian festival also celebrate Easter, the annual feast of the Resurrection, and Sunday, the weekly feast of the Resurrection.
Again...all inventions of man. We all know at what day and time the Sabbath begins/ends.
Fourth, the significance of the coming of Christ at the time when the (Northern Hemisphere) days are just beginning to lengthen has profound symbolism for many, as was noted in earlier posts by others.
How nice of the Catholic Church to show compassion on those poor Pagans and let them keep their festival...
CC
__________________ It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. -Gal 5:1 (NIV)
My neighbor denies Yeshua rose from the dead and was the son of God...yet celebrates Christmas like no other. He decks his yard out with Christmas decor that cost him thousands of dollars. He spoils his grandkids with all kinds of presents. I was at Home Depot the 1st week of October and they were putting up the Christmas isle. See...this has NOTHING to do with Yeshua. If you look at the OT feasts....who decided on those? God commanded them to be observed. Christmas is a Catholic invention...an invention of man. The Catholic Church was concerned with getting money to Rome...not with the spirituality of individuals. They didn't allow Christmas or Easter because they really wanted Pagans to be saved and be reconciled with God. So...where are we today? I'm not saying don't celebrate Christmas...I'm saying that the act of observing Christmas doesn't please God anymore than me observing a Dallas Cowboys game. Most of the people who celebrate Christmas are far from God IMHO.
agreed on the last sentence, but i've already said that Christmas is really what you choose to make it. a person can celebrate pickles if he/she wants.
i think you're trying to make christmas a static term... today, culturally it's not. it doesn't matter what it used to be. you've already said that it's a man made holiday; so why are you viewing it as one specific thing? if it's a man made holiday, then it can mean many things, and men can make it into whatever they want. they can worship God, money, or pickles. and i think God is pleased when his children honestly choose to set aside one day a year to honor him in a special way. i'm not saying everyone does that, but some do.
Fine...but this celebration (or feast) is not God-sanctioned.
so, it's wrong for christians too celebrate God in any instance without being specifically instructed to do so?
__________________
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Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and nature's night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray,--
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
my chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My neighbor denies Yeshua rose from the dead and was the son of God...yet celebrates Christmas like no other. He decks his yard out with Christmas decor that cost him thousands of dollars. He spoils his grandkids with all kinds of presents. I was at Home Depot the 1st week of October and they were putting up the Christmas isle. See...this has NOTHING to do with Yeshua. If you look at the OT feasts....who decided on those? God commanded them to be observed. Christmas is a Catholic invention...an invention of man. The Catholic Church was concerned with getting money to Rome...not with the spirituality of individuals. They didn't allow Christmas or Easter because they really wanted Pagans to be saved and be reconciled with God. So...where are we today? I'm not saying don't celebrate Christmas...I'm saying that the act of observing Christmas doesn't please God anymore than me observing a Dallas Cowboys game. Most of the people who celebrate Christmas are far from God IMHO.
CC
Well if it makes you feel any better, I'm a non-Christian and I don't care much for Christmas either.
I don't think it is following the Bible, or Christ's Will, to observe Christmas by putting up a pagan tree celebrating the winter solstace, nor giving each other presents. Nowhere in the bible does it tell Christians to do that or to practice that way.
That said, is it bad? I don't think so. If you get caught up in the commercialism of it, thinking that you have to buy everyone and their Aunt Edna a gift, it becomes more obligation, rather than celebrating one another. It's nice to receive gifts, and it's true - the giving of a gift to someone we love, and watching their excitement when they open it, is wonderful. It's a time of being thankful for being together as family, a time when you can say, "Hey!! Can we stop fighting? It's Christmas!" and actually have people see that as a worthy excuse to stop fighting and try to have peace and goodwill toward one another.
How can that be bad?
__________________ Love is the only miracle there is. -Osho
Matthew 10:16
See, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves.
17 “But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 “But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20 “For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
In regards to Santa, I will say this. As a child, I was like Linus, and could say, "Christmas is about the birth of Baby Jesus, of God sending his son to us to guide us and teach us how to love, and to die for our sins."
But what was I thinking? It's about the toys. I was kid.
And Halloween is about the candy, and little else.
Then, I grew up, and found that Christmas was just about being together with family and loved ones, and the gift giving has never been what it is about. Then again, I don't gorge on a pillowcase full of candy anymore, either.
__________________ Love is the only miracle there is. -Osho
Matthew 10:16
See, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves.
17 “But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 “But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20 “For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
So what? It has NOTHING to do with Yeshua. And...one must ask...why do we celebrate the birth of Yeshua? His birth makes him no different than you or I...and a birthday is something we celebrate when that person is alive on this planet. What made him special is that he ROSE. So...it makes sense to me that we would celebrate his resurrection...in which we put our hope.
Hmmm celebrating the birth of Christ has nothing to do with Christ...
Riiiiiight.
Also, I'm pretty sure the birth of someone who is fully God and fully man from a virgin is not the standard form of human birth.
Since the Pagans were converted...why do we continue this? Oh...and btw...can you think of anything else the Catholic Church did to make the conversion of the Pagans "easier"? I can think of several things that Catholics don't like to talk about. Why...in the name of God...would Rome had been interested in converting Pagans? Hint: love isn't the answer.
CC
Ah yes, it's always the Catholic Church's fault. I'm sure whatever you're thinking of is:
1. A misunderstanding of history.
2. Nothing particularly unique (i.e. religious violence)
As for being interested in converting pagans... do I REALLY need to answer that question? Great Commission and so forth.
From your next post a bit above this one, though, I don't feel the need to continue this conversation. You're adhering to hardcore Messianic theology and some skewed view of Catholicism. For all intents and purposes today, Yeshua translates into Jesus. Doesn't matter what it "directly" translates to, or used to translate to. What matters is the current accepted translation of the word, and that's Jesus. Languages evolve.
You continue to insist that Christmas is a man-made holiday, when failing to realize the exact same thing is in Easter, other Christian holidays, and Jewish holidays. All holidays are celebrated as a remembrance of something or for some other reason. In the case of religious holidays (particularly Judeo-Christian ones), we find the evidence of their beginnings in Scripture and continue to celebrate them today. Christmas? Jesus' birth is recorded in Scripture. Easter? Jesus' resurrection is recorded in Scripture.
Finally, I'd like to close this with a note that Messianic Judaism wouldn't be around in the first place if it wasn't for the Catholic Church (same for the Protestant churches). Like it or not, the Catholic Church is what carried Scripture and Christian tradition through Europe from the founding of the Church all the way through the Middle Ages and beyond. You might adhere to one of those alternative histories like the Trail of Blood (Baptists) or some other similar thing, but those theories are shaky and have barely any supporting evidence.
Thank you, and good day.
__________________ Don't worry, I'm from the Church and I'm here to help!
There is no conspiracy. Come along. The helicopter's waiting.
I would have thought that the stories about Santa Claus would resonate strongly with Christians.
Santa is a benevolent father figure with a long white beard. He lives in an inaccessible place and no one has ever seen his home. Santa has many magical helpers. No one has ever seen the real Santa. Santa is eternal. Children are taught to ask this unseen Santa for gifts, but they will only receive those gifts if they are good children. Santa watches over children and knows when they are good or bad. He keeps a list of the children who have been good and bad and rewards those who have been good all year (a lifetime for small children) and punishes those who have been bad. Santa performs miracles like flying through the sky (travelling across a medium that wouldn’t support a normal man) and using the meagre resources available at the North Pole to produce enough gifts to satisfy thousands of children across the world.
Children believe that Santa Claus is real because authority figures tell them so and they’ve read about him in storybooks. Children believe the stories about Santa because they are insecure and credulous. Santa is like God for people under the age of six… or is it the other way round?
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. – David Hume 1711-1776
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