Again, God owns everybody, He can do as He pleases with whomever He wants.
I can see you believe that. I’m asking for some clarification on when you think it does these things. Please try to answer the questions in the final paragraph of my previous post.
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. – David Hume 1711-1776
Okay. It seems clear from these responses and others that Christians find it perfectly acceptable for this unsubstantiated God of theirs to kill babies, children or anyone else it cares to because, as far as Christians are concerned, it can do whatever it likes and they have no problem with it.
Doesn't the One who creates something have a right to destroy it or kill it? Doesn't the owner of something have the right to destroy or kill it? Doesn't an earthly king have absolute authority holding the very lives of his subjects in his hands? Then how much more authority would the creator of life itself have over our lives?
It doesn’t matter how young or seemingly innocent people are, if your God wants to kill them then you have no objection.
Number one no one is innocent. No matter how young or old they are. We're all steeped in sin, born into rebellion against God. So forget this notion you have about innocence. It doesn't exist.
Number two as far having no objection I've never said that and I don't believe anyone else has either. Of course we have objections when a child dies, but we also recognize the sovereign authority of God over all creation.
In addition, you hold the groundless belief that they aren’t really dead anyway.
Dead in the flesh, absolutely they are. Dead in the spirit, not quite.
I don’t think I understood before now the full implications of Christian beliefs. No only do you have no objection to it, but you actually revere and worship something you think kills people whenever it feels like it.
God isn't a man that gets bored and starts killing. There's purpose and plan to all of our lives. Including our deaths. That's far from the wanton killing you're trying to say happens. God doesn't kill whenever He feels like it. We're all predestined to die at some point.
I’m wondering what you consider to be death at the hands of this unsubstantiated God.
Hell.
That's true death. Physical death is meaningless in comparison. Deuteronomy 30:19 says
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
God isn't pleading with His people to choose life so that they never die a physical death, but He's instructing them to choose spiritual life which continues on forever.
Was it only people in stories in the Bible who were deliberately killed by your God or is it still killing people today?
Matthew 10:29 should answer that question for you -
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
Deuteronomy 32:39 further clarifies -
See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.
So in simple terms, yes. God today still has complete and sovereign authority over every moment of our lives.
When people say things like, “it was God’s will” when a baby dies, is that true or are they just struggling to deal with the senseless death of a child? Did this God you worship really kill their baby?
See my response above. Nothing dies except by the will of God. I don't pretend to understand how or why I just recognize His authority and sovereign right to do what He does.
When people are killed through “acts of God” was it really your God that killed them or is that just an anachronistic euphemism? Outside the stories in the Bible, roughly how many people has this God you worship actually killed?
Yes it is God who kills them.
I put to death and I bring to life
God is 100% responsible for giving life, and 100% responsible for putting to death.
Outside the stories in the Bible, roughly how many people has this God you worship actually killed?
Why does it matter? as you have said "we" as Christians don't care, and you don't believe in Him...
God is not answerable to any of us.
__________________ If I do not respond in a timely manor to your post, I invite you to send me a PM or a E/M to remind me of your situation. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone, and sometimes the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.
I read all 5 pages and no one has even come close to answering the question
The answer is there, but it doesnot to fit you philosophy of life, so it will remain unseen by you or anyone else who does not know God.
In such Ways God hides His nature from the self seeking.
__________________ If I do not respond in a timely manor to your post, I invite you to send me a PM or a E/M to remind me of your situation. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone, and sometimes the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.
I hear what you are saying about admiring people who use sound reasoning or judgment. However, this thought limits one to admiring those who exist in a flawed earthly realm. It is easy to admire someone whom you may think you know much about. But still, this is an act of faith since you have not seen all of the unsound or unreasonable judgments that they have made throughout their lives. You cannot read their hearts or minds, so you can never really know what their true intentions are even when they seem sound or reasonable.
About himself, God says this:
Psalm 2:1
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed
In another version, it reads so -
1Why are the nations so violently moved, and why are the thoughts of the people so foolish? 2The kings of the earth have taken their place, and the rulers are fixed in their purpose, against the Lord, and against the king of his selection,
Here God reminds us that his wisdom far exceeds that of mankind.
"The foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men" (I Corinthians 1:25)
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55: 8 &9)
Psalms 145:17 tells us: "The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works."
It takes faith for someone to believe that all of God's ways are right, just and best. You have some faith in the sound reasoning and judgment of those you admire. But it takes much more faith than that to believe that God does all things well, especially when we don't always understand all of his peculiar acts.
When we see an abandoned baby, we may say "who was the horrible mother that did this?" But that's because we don't have all the facts. Perhaps she was a drug addict who couldn't handle the pressure and hoped that someone else could give her child a better life than she ever could.
God has all the facts. He sees and knows it all from yesterday, right now and right into tomorrow. So he is the only one who can make right decisions all the time, regardless of what we can see with our finite human eye.
Until you can believe this by faith, you may never have an answer to satisfy you. His words as quoted here have spoken directly to you, and you must decide today what you will do with them.
P.S. - As a Christian who listens to the Holy Spirit of God speaking to me, I do have two way conversations with God. A while before I typed this I asked him to give me words to speak to you. This is what he gave me. Therefore, I will leave it at that.
You're not "exploring Christianity" you're here to attack it, ourselves, and God. That's pretty clear from reading your venomous responses to anything anyone says.
You're not "exploring Christianity" you're here to attack it, ourselves, and God.
On the contrary, I am here to explore Christianity, which is conformance to and the practice of the Christian religion. I’m not attacking your God. I don’t even think it is real. I’m asking questions about those aspects of the Christian faith that I find difficult to understand or accept. For example, why anyone would believe something for which there is no sound evidence and why people would worship something they know kills people for no discernable reason, as you said yourself.
Originally Posted by bsd31
Nothing dies except by the will of God. I don't pretend to understand how or why I just recognize His authority and sovereign right to do what He does.
You also said this:
There's purpose and plan to all of our lives. Including our deaths. That's far from the wanton killing you're trying to say happens. God doesn't kill whenever He feels like it.
How can you know there is a purpose and plan? You said you don’t understand why your God kills people so how can you possibly know it isn’t just doing it whenever it feels like it? Is there anything in scripture that says how your God decides when to kill people? And don’t tell me it’s when it thinks they are evil and wicked because you’ve already said that includes everyone from when they were born.
Number one no one is innocent. No matter how young or old they are. We're all steeped in sin, born into rebellion against God. So forget this notion you have about innocence. It doesn't exist.
So if everyone is evil and wicked from when they were born, how does your God decide when to kill them?
Originally Posted by bsd31
That's pretty clear from reading your venomous responses to anything anyone says.
When people make vague, ridiculous or unproven statements, I’m going to challenge them to clarify those statements. For example, you said this:
Originally Posted by bsd31
Of course we have objections when a child dies, but we also recognize the sovereign authority of God over all creation.
If you object to your God killing children then why do you worship it when it does so? Is it simply out of abject fear and servitude to this thing you think has absolute power over you?
Dead in the flesh, absolutely they are. Dead in the spirit, not quite.
Prove it. Please prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is the truth. Begin by describing this “spirit” and proving that it is real. Then prove that it exists after someone is dead.
God isn't pleading with His people to choose life so that they never die a physical death, but He's instructing them to choose spiritual life which continues on forever.
So in simple terms, yes. God today still has complete and sovereign authority over every moment of our lives.
Nothing dies except by the will of God.
Yes it is God who kills them.
God is 100% responsible for giving life, and 100% responsible for putting to death.
You are stating these things as facts so please prove beyond reasonable doubt that any of that is the truth. Begin by proving beyond reasonable doubt that this God of yours is even real. Then prove that each of your statements is the truth.
If you can’t prove that any of these things is the truth or even that your God is real then why on Earth should you or anyone else believe in such a thing or worship it?
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. – David Hume 1711-1776
On the contrary, I am here to explore Christianity, which is conformance to and the practice of the Christian religion. I’m not attacking your God. I don’t even think it is real. I’m asking questions about those aspects of the Christian faith that I find difficult to understand or accept. For example, why anyone would believe something for which there is no sound evidence and why people would worship something they know kills people for no discernable reason, as you said yourself.
You also said this:
How can you know there is a purpose and plan? You said you don’t understand why your God kills people so how can you possibly know it isn’t just doing it whenever it feels like it? Is there anything in scripture that says how your God decides when to kill people? And don’t tell me it’s when it thinks they are evil and wicked because you’ve already said that includes everyone from when they were born.
So if everyone is evil and wicked from when they were born, how does your God decide when to kill them?
When people make vague, ridiculous or unproven statements, I’m going to challenge them to clarify those statements. For example, you said this:
If you object to your God killing children then why do you worship it when it does so? Is it simply out of abject fear and servitude to this thing you think has absolute power over you?
Prove it. Please prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is the truth. Begin by describing this “spirit” and proving that it is real. Then prove that it exists after someone is dead.
You are stating these things as facts so please prove beyond reasonable doubt that any of that is the truth. Begin by proving beyond reasonable doubt that this God of yours is even real. Then prove that each of your statements is the truth.
If you can’t prove that any of these things is the truth or even that your God is real then why on Earth should you or anyone else believe in such a thing or worship it?
God is not an "it". God is a sentient being. A person. A person superior in every possible way to any other person who has ever or will ever live. Respect that, even if you don't believe it.
Linear Mode
