Again, my belief in God does not hinge on this issue. It is your sticking point, not mine.
I’m not questioning your belief in God. I’m asking why you would admire or respect something that kills babies and children. I believe that terrorists exist, but I don’t admire or respect them when they kill innocent children. Why do you admire and respect your God when it does the same? I’ll ask you again, when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children?
The fact that the babies go to heaven is not an explanation that the end justifies the means, because getting babies into heaven was not the purpose of the decision. It was not the "end." However we mention it because it points out that your central point is not really an issue.
Again, I find your comments disturbing. Do you really think that killing babies and children is “not really an issue”? You actually seem to think that such behaviour is acceptable.
To restate your objection: "How can you worship a God who at one point indiscriminately sent babies to eternal paradise in order to achieve a specific goal"
And again you appear to be focussing on the end, “eternal paradise”, rather than the act of killing. Please answer the question: when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children? Is it acceptable to you because they end up in “eternal paradise”? If so then why would you object to child murderers accomplishing the same end? Is it acceptable to you because you will blindly excuse any act of cruelty, violence or killing that your God perpetrates? How about the times your God ordered others to kill children? Are those acts excusable? Would you acquit a child murderer who used “God made me do it” as a defence? If you don’t think these things are acceptable or excusable then why do you admire or respect your God when it does them?
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Which means He was justified in killing or allowing the deaths of anyone that has died from the beginning of time till the end of time, because only He knows all things.
So you are willing to excuse any killing your God does. I wonder why?
I worship God because He gave me life, created everything I have ever/will ever know, and has come into my life to save me and deliver me from evil and give me eternal life.
I see.
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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. – David Hume 1711-1776
Sigma, is there any one on this earth whom you admire, respect or have any kind of personal relationship with? If so, why do admire, respect or have a relationship with them?
I admire and respect people who, among other things, use sound reasoning and judgment, overcome adversity or work hard to make something of themselves and their lives. I don’t admire or respect people who are intolerant, cruel or violent or who don’t use sound reasoning or judgment.
I have personal relationships with relatives, friends, colleagues and acquaintances. I don’t have personal relationships with people I’ve never met or with whom I’ve never had a real, two-way conversation.
How about you? Do you admire and respect a God that exhibits and teaches intolerance, cruelty and violence and kills babies and children? Have you ever actually met your God or had a real, two-way conversation with it?
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In fact He's not to be judged at all, but He is to be held in the highest awe for the holiness and righteousness of His Name.
Just to be clear, you find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You see nothing wrong with that and, in fact, you worship something that has done that?
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What else could we do to God other than worship Him?
So you also find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You don’t see that as contemptible behaviour and condemn the perpetrator, but instead you worship it?
I find so many of these responses more than disturbing. That anyone would accept or excuse such contemptible behaviour beggars belief.
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Originally Posted by 3sigma
So you also find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You don’t see that as contemptible behaviour and condemn the perpetrator, but instead you worship it?
Condemn God? How do you propose we condemn such an omnipotent being? Hey, we should've killed God while we were at it (Christians incidentally believe that we did kill God, but that's a different story for another theological debate).
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Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
Just to be clear, you find the killing of every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the face of the entire planet to be completely acceptable? You see nothing wrong with that and, in fact, you worship something that has done that?
Why are you so hung up on the age of the people who were judged? What does that have to do with anything? And by your reaction I'll assume you are against abortion? After all you did mention fetuses in your list of atrocities.
Yes, I certainly do worship "something" that has done that. He is the same one who will judge us, all of us, according to His standards. Not yours. Not mine. His. Why do you see a problem with that?
And again you appear to be focussing on the end, “eternal paradise”, rather than the act of killing. Please answer the question: when do you think it is acceptable to kill babies and children? Is it acceptable to you because they end up in “eternal paradise”? If so then why would you object to child murderers accomplishing the same end? Is it acceptable to you because you will blindly excuse any act of cruelty, violence or killing that your God perpetrates? How about the times your God ordered others to kill children? Are those acts excusable? Would you acquit a child murderer who used “God made me do it” as a defence? If you don’t think these things are acceptable or excusable then why do you admire or respect your God when it does them?
I already answered this and you ignored the answer. If you actually care about my answer, go back and read it in it's entirety and take each sentence in context with the rest of what I said. If you only care about repeating the same thing over and over again because you like the sound of it, then I'm done with this thread.
No, that doesn’t sound right at all. Of course the indiscriminate death of women and children is an issue. Are you okay with those deaths? Why would you worship something that causes them?
As we know it, Death is not the end of life, but only a transformation of it. So to directly answer your question, Absolutely not. I have no issues with God giving or taking this life with or without a known purpose. Because God being who He claims to be, He has the authority and purpose to do so, whether known or not, and does not Kill indiscriminately. He merely takes life without the permission or explanation of people like 3sigma. Which seems to be the true issue if in fact you do not fear death.
I don’t fear death so I don’t feel the need to believe that I will never really die. Wouldn’t it be more likely that those who do fear death would be the ones who would cling to beliefs like that?
then why not face it? why the need to demand an explanation from someone who would seemingly cut a life short? Why is death such a wrong that it warrants such a strong response from you? That is if you did not truly fear it?
And to answer your question. to live this life and eternity with God would be great, but if I only had this life to give I would cut it short to make an equal impact for God.. (and many many others before me have, knowing little to nothing of the final resurrection.)
Why is it so wrong to worship God if He decides to take life? isn't He the one who Gave it? Then is it not His to Give or take? We can not give life in this manner so it is wrong for us to take on the role of God and take it.. Because the life we take is not our to do with as we please. If you were a potter couldn't you mold a lump of clay anyway you saw fit? and at the same time would it be wrong for you to take a lump of clay and simply decide that you did not want to continue with it? would it be immoral to take the clay back? No, because it's Your Clay.
We as Christians simply wish to worship the potter and not the vessels.
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Last edited by drich0150; 31st October 2009 at 01:43 AM.
Condemn God? How do you propose we condemn such an omnipotent being?
Originally Posted by bsd31
Why are you so hung up on the age of the people who were judged? What does that have to do with anything?
…
Yes, I certainly do worship "something" that has done that. He is the same one who will judge us, all of us, according to His standards.
Originally Posted by drich0150
As we know it, Death is not the end of life, but only a transformation of it. So to directly answer your question, Absolutely not. I have no issues with God giving or taking this life with or without a known purpose. Because God being who He claims to be, He has the authority and purpose to do so, whether known or not, and does not Kill indiscriminately.
Okay. It seems clear from these responses and others that Christians find it perfectly acceptable for this unsubstantiated God of theirs to kill babies, children or anyone else it cares to because, as far as Christians are concerned, it can do whatever it likes and they have no problem with it. It doesn’t matter how young or seemingly innocent people are, if your God wants to kill them then you have no objection. In addition, you hold the groundless belief that they aren’t really dead anyway.
I don’t think I understood before now the full implications of Christian beliefs. No only do you have no objection to it, but you actually revere and worship something you think kills people whenever it feels like it.
I’m wondering what you consider to be death at the hands of this unsubstantiated God. Was it only people in stories in the Bible who were deliberately killed by your God or is it still killing people today? When people say things like, “it was God’s will” when a baby dies, is that true or are they just struggling to deal with the senseless death of a child? Did this God you worship really kill their baby? When people are killed through “acts of God” was it really your God that killed them or is that just an anachronistic euphemism? Outside the stories in the Bible, roughly how many people has this God you worship actually killed?
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