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  #11  
Old 29th October 2009, 11:40 AM
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In answer to the question in the title of the post: Christians worship God because they believe that he is real. This belief is based on the historical evidence surrounding Jesus, on their thoughtful reasoning, on personal experiences; it's not just blind faith. There is an element of faith involved however, just like there is an element of faith in atheism. You choose to believe that there is no God, even though you can never scientifically or empirically prove that there is no God. Ultimately, you choose atheism because you want to. Christians choose Jesus because they want to.

Now, in some ways Christianity is uncomfortable, even to those who believe it. It requires humility. You must believe that you are intrinsically evil and must rely on the mercy and grace of God in order to ever be made into anything worthwhile. You must be willing to accept that God, being able to see and understand the whole of time and space, will do things that you do not understand because you are not in possession of all the knowledge of God. Perhaps that is at the center of your confusion? Why would Christians believe in something that results in humility and faith, rather than pride and confidence and comfort? Oddly enough, while it doesn't produce pride, a relationship with God does produce confidence and comfort, because when a person puts their faith in God, they find out that He does actually love them and care for them and learn from experience that ultimately His plans are for good, and not evil. That is why we worship Him.
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  #12  
Old 29th October 2009, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 3sigma View Post
According to the Bible, your God indiscriminately kills children and babies. One aspect of Christianity that I find hard to understand or accept is why anyone would worship something that they know does such things. Why do Christians worship, revere, admire, respect or have any kind of “personal relationship” (whatever that means) with something that they know indiscriminately kills children and babies?
Since I don't accept the premise of your first sentence, the question is a bit problematic. If you thought God had behaved that way that you might have a problem.

The God I worship is the one I see in Jesus of Nazareth.
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  #13  
Old 29th October 2009, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by drich0150 View Post
It would be like if I were to ask How can you be apart of a society that indiscriminately kills women, children and babies? You worship and tithe through obeying it's laws and paying taxes and possibly voting when the opportunity arises, and yet you don't to seem to have an issue.
I don’t see how your God is like a society. A society is a group of people with a similar culture. Your God is allegedly an individual that indiscriminately kills babies. I pay taxes to support the government. That is hardly the same as worshipping a divine or supernatural being.

As far as directly answering you question, God has not indiscriminately killed anyone after the Death, burial and resurrection of His Son.(Marking the actual beginning of Christianity) If you think you know otherwise please submit chapter and verse.
All you are saying is that your God hasn’t killed babies indiscriminately since the last time it killed babies indiscriminately. So what? It’s still the same immutable God, is it not?
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  #14  
Old 29th October 2009, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JimmyL View Post
Please point me to the passage in the Bible that says that God order the murder of random children for no particular reason. Please note that judging a wicked nation is actually a reason, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
Genesis 7:21-23 claims that your God deliberately killed every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the entire planet. It didn’t discriminate among them. It didn’t spare some and kill others. It indiscriminately killed every single one of them.

It has also been pointed out several times that innocent children will go to heaven, and so the temporary suffering they endured on earth is repaid in eternal joy.
I’ve noticed that and, frankly, I find it rather disturbing. It is as though you and the others here are saying that because babies go to heaven, your God did them a favour by killing them. It follows from this that you should admire and respect child murderers because they achieve the same outcome. However, I hope that this isn’t the way you and the others here behave. I hope that you would condemn child murderers. In which case, why do you not also condemn your God for committing the same acts? Why do you worship it when it does such things?

In answer to the question in the title of the post: Christians worship God because they believe that he is real.
So you believe that your God is real. I get that. However, if you believe the Bible then you must also believe that your God indiscriminately kills babies. So here we have something that you just know is real and you know it kills babies. Why would anyone worship such a thing? I don’t understand this. If I believed that your God was real and killed babies, I would have nothing but utter contempt for it.
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  #15  
Old 29th October 2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ebia View Post
Since I don't accept the premise of your first sentence, the question is a bit problematic. If you thought God had behaved that way that you might have a problem.
Genesis 7:21-23 proves the premise. Now that you know that your God behaves that way, do you have a problem with it?

The God I worship is the one I see in Jesus of Nazareth.
Don’t Christians believe in the triune God? Aren’t they all one and the same? Why would you worship something that has indiscriminately killed babies? Doesn’t this Jesus you worship say that he will send his angels to burn anyone who doesn’t obey him (Matthew 13:41-42, John 15:6, 2 Thessalonians 1:8)? Why would you worship someone like that?
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  #16  
Old 29th October 2009, 11:36 PM
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Genesis 7:21-23 claims that your God deliberately killed every fœtus, baby, toddler and child on the entire planet. It didn’t discriminate among them. It didn’t spare some and kill others. It indiscriminately killed every single one of them.

Genesis 7:21-23 claims that God wiped out everyone on the planet because humanity had become so evil and vile that the slate had to be wiped completely clean. There was a reason for this decision. God, knowing the whole of space time and able to see and understand the consequences of various decisions believed that the suffering and evil that would have resulted from allowing humanity to continue as it had justified the decision. You are oversimplifying the story in order to support your claim.

It follows from this that you should admire and respect child murderers because they achieve the same outcome.

Child murderers do not have the same intention as God, nor do they have the same authority. To say that the two are the same suggests that you believe that the end always justifies the means.

Furthermore, nobody has said that they admire and respect God because he kills babies, so it absolutely does not follow that we "should admire and respect child murderers because they achieve the same outcome." We admire and respect God because he is God. That is the difference between the two. You are really bending logic in order to sustain your argument.

If I believed that your God was real and killed babies, I would have nothing but utter contempt for it.

I'm pretty sure that if you believed that God was real you would have contempt for Him, period. You've latched onto a straw man that sounds impressive and gets people riled up because you like to attack God, or at least the idea of God.
  #17  
Old 29th October 2009, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 3sigma View Post
Genesis 7:21-23 proves the premise.
I don't agree. FWIW, in my view Genesis 6-9 is a narrative way of answering the question "why doesn't God just wipe out evil by force?"

Now that you know that your God behaves that way, do you have a problem with it?
I don't "know that [my] God behaves that way".

Don’t Christians believe in the triune God? Aren’t they all one and the same?
Indeed, but it is in Jesus we see God most clearly. It is to Jesus, first and formost, that Christians should look to see what God is like.


Why would you worship something that has indiscriminately killed babies? Doesn’t this Jesus you worship say that he will send his angels to burn anyone who doesn’t obey him (Matthew 13:41-42, John 15:6, 2 Thessalonians 1:8)?
I don't understand those passage to say what you interpret them as saying, so ... no.
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  #18  
Old 30th October 2009, 12:22 AM
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I don’t see how your God is like a society. A society is a group of people with a similar culture. Your God is allegedly an individual that indiscriminately kills babies. I pay taxes to support the government. That is hardly the same as worshipping a divine or supernatural being.
So your saying indiscriminate death of women and children isn't the issue here. your just not happy with God, does that sound right?

All you are saying is that your God hasn’t killed babies indiscriminately since the last time it killed babies indiscriminately. So what? It’s still the same immutable God, is it not?
again, death is only an issue to those who fear it, or simply don't understand it
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  #19  
Old 30th October 2009, 12:44 AM
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3sigma,

If you don't mind me asking...what is your faith/belief system please?

Sincerely,
  #20  
Old 30th October 2009, 05:22 AM
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Why do Christians worship their God?
Christians worship God because he is the Creator of everything: "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Revelation 4:11).

As Creator, God has the right to do with his creatures whatever he wants: "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:21-24).

God is so great, so infinitely vast, that even all of humanity together is worth less than nothing compared with him: "All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity" (Isaiah 40:17).
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