The first was on cnn.com about the little girl (Somer Thompson) who was murdered and her father was being interviewed. He spoke about how he has to forgive the killer because the Bible says so and then he finished the interview by saying God has a special place in hell for the killer.
The second clip was Stone Phillips interview of serial killer Jeffery Dahmer back a few months before he was murdered in prison. In the interview with Jeff and his father Lionel he talked about coming to know Christ and being saved.
I know we all want a God that forgives what we consider petty trespasses. Our idolatry, lying, stealing, adultery, anger, etc, etc, etc but do we really in our heart of hearts want people like the two mentioned above to come to know God's grace and forgiveness? I don't know about the person who killed Somer Thompson, but Jeffery Dahmer claimed to be a Christian, converted after the fact he was found out.
Assuming he was and it wasn't just wishful thinking on his part would you be filled with joy to know he is in heaven and justified by the blood of Christ? I'm looking for answers from the heart, and not from what a "good" Christian would say.
As for me I'm torn. On the one hand I believe that the grace of God extends to ALL who call on The Name. I believe He takes up their case and whatever went wrong that cause Dahmer to become the man he did God has dealt with it and Jeffery Dahmer is dearly beloved of the Lord. On the other hand he slaughtered 17 people. If one of those people were my relative I don't know that there could be a hell horrible enough for him.
Being completely honest, I do.
I do wish they might someday come to call on the name of our Lord and be saved. But the only reason why is being I try to let the Spirit think instead of me think.
My honest reasoning: I can't believe this guy ____ this ___ and did ___!! Unbelievable!! God can't approve of this crap.
The Spirits true reasoning: All who call on the name of the Lord may be saved, fo this is why the Son came and died just to be risen again, so that sinners have one on one access to The Father and through the Name of Jesus may they be saved. Remember that these people are under the curse and are blinded by Satan; their father. They are controlled by many unclean spirits that only Jesus can bind. Pray for them.
So it's a two sided thing. But the Spirit of Truth has the better answer!!
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"Too often Christians hide in churches designed to keep its members comfortable and safe while the world is going to hell, while we are playing the 'religion game', as we fragment and abandon self sacrifice for comfort." - Matt Slick
I heard someone say "well certainly God isn't going to judge say a gossiper the same as he judges a murderer" but Paul said that gossips and bad-mouthers were in the same league as murderers, sexual perverts, and God haters -- and that such sins were worthy of a death sentence! My point is, that we're all sinners and if I'm say gossiping or backbiting or being a busybody, I'm going to stand in judgement right there before Jeffrey Dahmer. So I must trust that God will forgive me for my sins, same as he would forgive Dahmer, otherwise we're all lost.
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Yes I agree also! For all is Sin in Gods eyes God cannot be near Sin God cannot tolerate Sin . Sin separates us from God.
I've had this conversation on these forums not that long ago, about How God regards Sin and all sin is what it is Sin it's all the same in the eyes of God.
We as Humans and as Christians want to pigeon Hole and categorize Sins, even more so the world will categorize Sin. The world measures these Sins in order of severity . From the little white lie to the most heinous acts of Murder and mass genocide.The world sees it only as a measure of severity , But Gods cannot even be in the presence of a little white lie because it is a Sin.
WE as Christians Have a Savior that has paid the price For all of our sins , this had to be done if their ever would be hope of any Man or Woman to be forgiven and allowed into paradise. Thank Jesus that this offer is still open , but this offer will not always be there on the table for mankind to take advantage of . That is why We Christians have been asked to seek out every one We are able to cross paths with so that all will have the opportunity to receive Him as their Savior and Lord. It is hard For Man to understand the Love of God that is why We treat Sin as We do. WE must try however with the leading of His Holy Spirit and allow Him to lead us where He wlii have us in order to reach the lost...May God Bless each and every one of You on this thread and may You inturn lead someone to be Blessed even this very day....Dave
Yes I agree also! For all is Sin in Gods eyes God cannot be near Sin God cannot tolerate Sin . Sin separates us from God.
I've had this conversation on these forums not that long ago, about How God regards Sin and all sin is what it is Sin it's all the same in the eyes of God.
We as Humans and as Christians want to pigeon Hole and categorize Sins, even more so the world will categorize Sin. The world measures these Sins in order of severity . From the little white lie to the most heinous acts of Murder and mass genocide.The world sees it only as a measure of severity , But Gods cannot even be in the presence of a little white lie because it is a Sin.
WE as Christians Have a Savior that has paid the price For all of our sins , this had to be done if their ever would be hope of any Man or Woman to be forgiven and allowed into paradise. Thank Jesus that this offer is still open , but this offer will not always be there on the table for mankind to take advantage of . That is why We Christians have been asked to seek out every one We are able to cross paths with so that all will have the opportunity to receive Him as their Savior and Lord. It is hard For Man to understand the Love of God that is why We treat Sin as We do. WE must try however with the leading of His Holy Spirit and allow Him to lead us where He wlii have us in order to reach the lost...May God Bless each and every one of You on this thread and may You inturn lead someone to be Blessed even this very day....Dave
Excellent point about how we like to order sins by their severity. I wonder why that is when scripture clearly says they are all the same. But then some will read this and say no that it says there are magnitudes of sin in the Bible.
Excellent point about how we like to order sins by their severity. I wonder why that is when scripture clearly says they are all the same. But then some will read this and say no that it says there are magnitudes of sin in the Bible.
Because we as fallen humans have a sliding scale depending on ourselves. God's judgment is pure because God is perfect, good, holy, and true. Because God is without sin, ALL sin is evil. If God had a sliding scale of forgiveness, we would all be in deep trouble.
The absoluteness of God's morality and goodness are comforting. Because Jesus died for all sins, the forgiveness offered by grace through faith is believable. The severity of the problem is great, the sacrifice of God greatest of all.
I've had this conversation on these forums not that long ago, about How God regards Sin and all sin is what it is Sin it's all the same in the eyes of God.
We as Humans and as Christians want to pigeon Hole and categorize Sins
I can't agree with you here. It is true that people often try to categorize sins in such a manner as to make themselves out to be good guys ("I've only committed the 'little sins' not the bigs ones like those other evil people") and that all sins are a falling short of the mark. It's also true that some actions are more damaging to our souls then others though. A sin is an illness but illness come in various intensities. A common cold vs Ebola for example. It is objectively a greater missing of the mark to torture someone then it is to eat in a gluttonous manner for example.
As for the murderers the OP mention I would be thrilled if they had a true repentance of heart and turned to God.
1 John 5:16-17 (King James Version)
16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
I heard someone say "well certainly God isn't going to judge say a gossiper the same as he judges a murderer" but Paul said that gossips and bad-mouthers were in the same league as murderers, sexual perverts, and God haters -- and that such sins were worthy of a death sentence! My point is, that we're all sinners and if I'm say gossiping or backbiting or being a busybody, I'm going to stand in judgement right there before Jeffrey Dahmer. So I must trust that God will forgive me for my sins, same as he would forgive Dahmer, otherwise we're all lost.
I certainly agree! I make my mistakes every day and even though this is an extreme case I feel I am not in the position to judge any other person out there. Who am I to say...it is not up to me.
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'We cannot do great things in this world. We can only do small things with great love.'
Excellent point about how we like to order sins by their severity. I wonder why that is when scripture clearly says they are all the same. But then some will read this and say no that it says there are magnitudes of sin in the Bible.
I disagree. Scripture doesn't say they are all the same.
1 Cor 5:1-2
5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife .
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
KJV
1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death , he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death . There is a sin that leads to death . I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death .
NIV
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Character fosters hope within others, while compromise builds dissillusionment
I disagree. Scripture doesn't say they are all the same.
1 Cor 5:1-2
5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife .
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
KJV
That doesn't indicate that incest is any more immoral than any other sin. In fact it Paul is telling them to put this man out of the fellowship not to wash their hands of him and be done with it, but that he might be handed over to Satan and his sinful nature can be destroyed and his spirit saved.
1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death , he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death . There is a sin that leads to death . I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death .
NIV
It is clear to me that this portion of scripture is referring to the unforgivable sin, blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. Notice it specifies "a sin that leads to death"? As in a singular sin that leads to death and all believers know that the only sin that Christ Himself declares won't be forgiven is the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. All other sin will be forgiven man. I'm speaking in the spiritual sense not the physical.
There are sins that will lead to physical death, but not spiritual death. Death is the consequence of some sins in this life, but that death doesn't extend to the spiritual. At least not for those who are in Christ.
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