Godspeed as you search for a new church home. It's absolutely clear that you'll be much happier outside the ELCA than you would have been had you remained in it. Don't be so quick to judge those who've made a different choice from the one you have, though. Surely not everybody (i.e., neither within the ELCA as a whole, nor--I'd venture to guess--even just within your own congregation) who chooses to remain in the ELCA is motivated by conflict avoidance and a desire to turn the church into a social club. I know you strongly disagree with the ELCA's decision, but surely you know that many also strongly agreed with it, and their agreement with the new policy is just as motivated by a desire to remain faithful to the norm of scripture as your disagreement with it is. I'm not chiming in here to rehash the arguments about which side is right, only to point out that the motivations you've ascribed to your former co-congregants is awfully uncharitable and probably demonstrably false.
I could, of course, be wrong, but I'd be rather surprised if the motivations you've listed are the only ones--or, for that matter, even the primary ones--at work in your former congregation. They certainly are not the motivations at work in any of the ELCA members and congregations I've encountered who agree with the new policies. You've made your choice to leave, and I do sincerely wish you well wherever you end up, but for better or for worse the ELCA leadership has chosen to try to preserve our church's now tenuous unity by affirming that both sides on this issue are genuinely motivated by a desire to remain faithful to the gospel and to the norm of scripture. That will surely prove to be a hard (and perhaps impossible) task, as even many of those who disagree but have have chosen to stay continue to ascribe motives falsely and uncharitably to the proponents of our new policies. Again, I'm not intending to reopen the debate about who's actually right, only pointing out that, despite what you've come to believe and assume, yours was not the only side trying earnestly to be faithful to what has been given to us in the scriptures.
I am not reading into the motivations.
I was told about the motivations by the Councilmembers.
1. Although they know it is the truth, they do not want to rock the boat.
2. Vicar is concerned about his own ordination by ELCA supervisors.
3. Members of that church are here for decades. They are visibly annoyed that their personal comfort zone is affected that strongly.
4. Pastor Emeritus (who was in ministry over 50 years and knows the congregants very well) also states they do not want to rock the boat.
(He himself also wrote an objection letter, which I just read about an hour ago).
So, our congreants that call themselves conservatives and stay and do nothing (while knowing the ELCA's same sex clergy Scriptural embarassment), appear to fall by their own admission into these categories.
Thanks,
Ed
Last edited by Edial; 28th October 2009 at 04:47 PM.
Reason: added "and do nothing"
I was told about the motivations by the Councilmembers.
1. Although they know it is the truth, they do not want to rock the boat.
2. Vicar is concerned about his own ordination by ELCA supervisors.
3. Members of that church are here for decades. They are visibly annoyed that their personal comfort zone is affected that strongly.
4. Pastor Emeritus (who was in ministry over 50 years and knows the congregants very well) also states they do not want to rock the boat.
(He himself also wrote an objection letter, which I just read about an hour ago).
So, our congreants that call themselves conservatives and stay and do nothing (while knowing the ELCA's same sex clergy Scriptural embarassment), appear to fall by their own admission into these categories.
Thanks,
Ed
Dear Ed,
You are in the catbird seat. Enjoy.
These people better get ready to hear all the financial appeals coming their way because of the drop in synod support. First, they had to talk about sex for 10 years. Now they will have to listen about money they need to cough up. Dollars may cause them to consider going elsewhere like nothing else. A trickle starts. They hear about other congregations leaving. Pretty soon its time for mop buckets.
It's still early in the game. But to those that think they will be able to do church the way they have been, they better be ready. Reality hits hard. Wait til the congregation hosts its first same sex marriage. Be the talk of the town, or the butt of it. No, it's not going to be the same. The more they see this, they'll be thinkin - now Ed was a pretty smart guy.
Actually it was only me Councilmember, Chairman of Church Council and the retired Pastor Emeritus ).
Present Vicar apparently is so wishy washy who needs to please all, especially his bosses ... and he is reporting weekly to ELCA ... and he is waiting to be ordained by them ... and people in congregation apparently prefer their habit of being here for decades over objecting for what they know is right.
Typical.
If plainly unscriptural behavior is openly approved of by a leadership ... and people that claim to be followers of Scriptures decide to stay ... it appears to me they simply like their social circle they call "church" and afraid of splits more than doing what is right.
I came from an atheist background.
At that time, to me church was something one goes at Christmas to show respect to historical Jesus.
That's all.
I had other social clubs. Church was never one of them.
Thanks,
Ed
Oh I'm sorry- I misread your post. But anyway, God be with you. It's a shame the others don't fully understand the problem. There is a time to shake the dust from your feet and move on.
Location: Northern California. Almost heaven except for quazi-communist state government.
Posts: 1,496
Blessings: 91,964
My Mood
Reps: 3,647,482,552,368 (power: 3,647,482,556)
Well done Ed! You'll find WELS to be a slight culture shock. Stick with it though and you'll also find that they take the Bible, Book of Concord, and the writings of Luther very seriously. They even like Walther.
__________________ Sufficient for the day are the troubles therein.
In my opinion, there is nothing more deceiving than a congregation that is proudly saying they are conservative (in a Lutheran sense), yet never object to anything.
Afraid to rock the boat.
Thanks,
Ed
It is always sad to leave those you have grown to love. However, I respect and agree with your reasoning... I did the same years ago for much the same reason. I still visit my old congregation every once in a while, to let them all know they are still close to my heart.
"slight culture shock" is probably more than an understatement
I'm sure it would be for you, Willy.
Ed has WELS friends, he knows what we are all about. We've talked in person. Your rude remark isn't going to stop him from checking us out further. Get used to the fact that you are going to be losing some members.
__________________ I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
__________________ I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed has WELS friends, he knows what we are all about. We've talked in person. Your rude remark isn't going to stop him from checking us out further. Get used to the fact that you are going to be losing some members.
All I know is that when we had families who came from WELS to our place they had a lot of adjusting to do--adjusting they wanted to do and later really appreciated. The thought world of WELS had shaped them to such an extent that it was almost as if they had not been exposed to the modern world. This had been for them quite a self-contained world. In part I think, this was the nature of these two families. We had other people from WELS who were just so excited to "rebel." Finally, these folks said, a place where women as leaders were taken seriously. These folks would laugh about officially women were denied leadership roles but in essence were leading. They were grateful that now in our church people could live as things really were.,
All I know is that when we had families who came from WELS to our place they had a lot of adjusting to do--adjusting they wanted to do and later really appreciated. The thought world of WELS had shaped them to such an extent that it was almost as if they had not been exposed to the modern world. This had been for them quite a self-contained world. In part I think, this was the nature of these two families. We had other people from WELS who were just so excited to "rebel." Finally, these folks said, a place where women as leaders were taken seriously. These folks would laugh about officially women were denied leadership roles but in essence were leading. They were grateful that now in our church people could live as things really were.,
It is much easier to live "of the world."
__________________ I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
).
Linear Mode
