Hello I am at the moment a Christian, and have been all my life. But very recently I have started question allot of my beliefs. I just have a few questions which really have been (for better or worse) drawing myself out of believing in god.
I've been debating it allot with myself about some of these questions, which I’m confused about for almost a year. And I just wanted to before I made a decision see what other Christians can say to answer them.
1. When I read a fairytale or hear tales of things like unicorns I obviously know that these aren’t real. a friend one day asked me why I know this, which I obviously replied with well there is no evidence of them being real so they're are obviously make belief. Which my friend then replied “well that’s kinda the same for god and the bible, so how can they be real?”. This really did shock me as I am a firm believer in logic.
So how can I believe if I can’t see any firm evidence of god, and still believe in logic?
2. I am also very interested in science and have a firm belief in allot of the theories such as the big bang and evolution (I believed god caused the big bang). My same friend then questioned me again. Asking “well many scientists believe that there was complicated series of events that caused the big bang. Which I replied with “well god started those events". My friend then said “So you're going to label any unexplained cause with god did it, god made it happen. That is the stupidest theory ever, as you have no evidence and just label anything you don’t understand as god done it. How does that help?”
Which kinda troubles me, as the cause and effect theory could be labelled to explain anything without any actual evidence?
3. Ok so say I pray to god, and he never answers my prayers? Then why should I pray to him?
4. Isn’t it less moral to good just because you want to do good for god, then to do good willingly in the benefit of others without wanting a reward? So why do people not in our religion get treated as less equal then us, as surely If they show goodness without wanting a reward, they far out do us in love?
5. Why is homosexuality seen as bad? When nearly everyone works on Sunday (the day of rest) the day that the bible says people should be put to death for working on?
Last edited by Moonshine123; 27th October 2009 at 10:03 PM.
1. We do have firm evidence of God through Jesus who was made man and dwelt among us:
Colossians 2:9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
2. Science can only measure, learn and theorise about observable things. Spirituality is unable to be learnt about via natural means. People who are unsaved dismiss what they cannot possibly understand until they themselves are born again.
John 3:5Jesus answered [talking to Nicodemus], "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."
1 Corinthians 1:18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
2 Corinthians 4: 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
3. Jesus himself said this in the Lord's Prayer:
Matthew 6:9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Are you praying that God's will be done? His way is higher than ours. Or are you testing Him, wanting Him to do things your way?
James 4:2You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
4. I'm not sure what you mean there: do you mean you are trying to get favour with God by doing good things? Or do you mean that how come good people outside the christian faith can't be saved?
Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
Romans 8: 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
We are seen as pure through the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins; nothing we can do by good works will make us pure in God's sight, for he is a pure God.
1 Peter: 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
5. Homosexuality is seen as bad because God Himself has declared it to be a sin. That is the truth no matter how politically incorrect that is.
In Genesis before Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis 3) God had ordained it to be man and wife.
Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Leviticus 18:33 [law given to Moses]" 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 1:25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Please ensure that you do good Bible study either by yourself or (even better) with some mature christians to set you on the right path. If we try and work it out with our own human reasoning we can get it so wrong. I sure know I have whenever I have tried to things my own way.
Proverbs 3: 5Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
I am sure you have heard of the famous Ephesians passage on spiritual warfare and this particular verse is especially for you:
Ephesians 6: 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
The word of God is the one offensive weapon we have against the Enemy so please learn to use it well.
God Bless, and please pray that your mind and spirit are kept safe in Christ Jesus.
1. When I read a fairytale or hear tales of things like unicorns I obviously know that these aren’t real. a friend one day asked me why I know this, which I obviously replied with well there is no evidence of them being real so they're are obviously make belief. Which my friend then replied “well that’s kinda the same for god and the bible, so how can they be real?”. This really did shock me as I am a firm believer in logic.
So how can I believe if I can’t see any firm evidence of god, and still believe in logic?
God is manifested in so many things around us. He shows himself in many ways (miracles still happen to this day). How many things have you heard of that go unexplained? There are plenty and science can't explain it.
2. I am also very interested in science and have a firm belief in allot of the theories such as the big bang and evolution (I believed god caused the big bang). My same friend then questioned me again. Asking “well many scientists believe that there was complicated series of events that caused the big bang. Which I replied with “well god started those events". My friend then said “So you're going to label any unexplained cause with god did it, god made it happen. That is the stupidest theory ever, as you have no evidence and just label anything you don’t understand as god done it. How does that help?”
Which kinda troubles me, as the cause and effect theory could be labelled to explain anything without any actual evidence?
First off the big bang theory was actually developed by a Roman Catholic priest (and it is a relatively new theory btw), and he did so in order to PROVE that there was a "beginning" and a creator outside of space and time. So in all actuality, you don't even need to explain God started those events. The guy who theorized the big bang already did so.
Secondly, this is where faith comes in. Some things you just need to believe. Not everyone has to be believe, and you aren't forcing your friend to believe anything you do. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. That is what free will and free thinking is all about.
3. Ok so say I pray to god, and he never answers my prayers? Then why should I pray to him?
How do you expect him to answer your prayer? Do you expect big flashy light with a "yes" or "no"? Sometimes God answers us indirectly, in a way that may take us YEARS to see. You can't expect him to shout the answer to you. Also, you need to have faith when praying.
Mark 11:22-24
Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
4. Isn’t it less moral to good just because you want to do good for god, then to do good willingly in the benefit of others without wanting a reward? So why do people not in our religion get treated as less equal then us, as surely If they show goodness without wanting a reward, they far out do us in love?
I don't treat people less than equal. We are looking for a heavenly reward, not an earthly reward, but that's not the only reason for doing good. We are told to do good several times in the Bible and that our faith urges us to do good (good works are a result of faith).
5. Why is homosexuality seen as bad? When nearly everyone works on Sunday (the day of rest) the day that the bible says people should be put to death for working on?
Because there are several verses in the Bible that clearly define it as something not natural. To say it is would mean God was in error when he created male and female for each other. Anything abnormal is a result of sin/the devil, not God's will for new change. That would mean God made a mistake in his creation which he didn't.
The Sabbath (day of rest) is Saturday, not Sunday. The rule that people should be put to death does not apply to us anymore as Jesus was the fulfillment of that old testament law (he himself did "work" and was criticized).
__________________ I know I am blunt. I apologize.
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1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.
1. When I read a fairytale or hear tales of things like unicorns I obviously know that these aren’t real. a friend one day asked me why I know this, which I obviously replied with well there is no evidence of them being real so they're are obviously make belief. Which my friend then replied “well that’s kinda the same for god and the bible, so how can they be real?”. This really did shock me as I am a firm believer in logic.
So how can I believe if I can’t see any firm evidence of god, and still believe in logic?
God isn't a force of nature like gravity, that can be measured, experimented with or tested. So from a scientific point of View there will never be any evidence that will hold up to scientific scrutiny. (I believe that to be by design.)
If you want "proof" of God, it can happen on a very personal level. He can reach out to you in such a way as to change your whole life, but at the same time those events will mean little to nothing to anyone else.
..And Who's to say unicorns and fairies weren't ever real? Just because you haven't seen one doesn't automatically make them a strict fairy tale fodder. This "question" plays to one's pride of life. Meaning it plays on the level of intelligence on which you wish to have, or at least to the intelligence you wish others to see you with.
If you want to be seen as a "logical/intelligent" you are going to have to put down this God business, because what the world has deemed logical or intelligent, has been purposefully design to exclude God.
That said, if you learn to humble yourself before God rather than your peers, He will lift you up. Then you will be able to use true logic and Godly wisdom to help make your decisions, but know this gift will separate you from those who do not know or love God.
2. I am also very interested in science and have a firm belief in allot of the theories such as the big bang and evolution (I believed god caused the big bang). My same friend then questioned me again. Asking “well many scientists believe that there was complicated series of events that caused the big bang. Which I replied with “well god started those events". My friend then said “So you're going to label any unexplained cause with god did it, god made it happen. That is the stupidest theory ever, as you have no evidence and just label anything you don’t understand as god done it. How does that help?”
Which kinda troubles me, as the cause and effect theory could be labeled to explain anything without any actual evidence?
Look at how your "friend" started his question.
“well many scientists believe"
What is the difference in what a scientists believe, and what a Christian believe? It takes the very same faith to exercise belief. (Despite what they would have you believe.) Because bottom line they have no proof only theory and scientific doctrine.
So bottom line, The scientific theory of origins and the Christian version are both firmly planted in simple faith.
Otherwise ask for real proof.. not what some leading scientist has speculated, but actual proof.. Aside from a lame attempt to dress up some popular theories and pass them off as proof, they have none.
So my question is, Why is your theory stupid, but his is valid? ..If in fact they are built from the same exact faith?
3. Ok so say I pray to god, and he never answers my prayers? Then why should I pray to him?
Is God your own personal genie? Away to make you every wish to come true? Or when you pray do you approach the Master and Commander of this universe? Do you approach him with song and praise? If you are simply trying to use God or manipulate Him then why would He answer your prayers?
4. Isn’t it less moral to good just because you want to do good for god, then to do good willingly in the benefit of others without wanting a reward? So why do people not in our religion get treated as less equal then us, as surely If they show goodness without wanting a reward, they far out do us in love?
Good deeds without God is not "Good" at all. They are filthy rags before the Lord. "Good" is a relative term. What was "good" 100 years ago, would be considered a crime today. Like handing out soiled Hospital bed linens, brandy and cigarettes on cold nights to the homeless. Taking milk returns to orphanages to feed the children. (The milk that was picked up or left over from the previous days milk deliveries. It was often spoiled)
These were all seen as "good deeds" in their own time. But Even from a human perspective we can see that the "good" in them is very limited.
So our interpretation of "Good" is usually based off of the amount of evil a society is willing to live with, and anyone willing to go above and beyond this accepted level of "good" is heralded.. But that doesn't make them or what they do truly Good.. It is only through God that our Deeds Become Good.
That said, we should not treat the unsaved poorly. In fact we should treat them well or like one who is in need.
5. Why is homosexuality seen as bad? When nearly everyone works on Sunday (the day of rest) the day that the bible says people should be put to death for working on?
Actually the Sabbath or Seventh Day is Saturday and not Sunday. Sunday is the first day of the week. But I do understand what it is your asking. Homosexuality is a sexual sin like any other. It is mentioned in the Old testament, and again in the new as a sin. Keeping the sabbath "Holy" is in the old testament, but in the new we are told that we are no longer bound by the observances of festivals and "holy" days to obtain righteousness.
__________________ If I do not respond in a timely manor to your post, I invite you to send me a PM or a E/M to remind me of your situation. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone, and sometimes the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.
i think you should get away from that friend and god is totally real as a matter of fact god is more real than everything you can see around you,a lot of people are confused like you because they really dont know the lord,they know about him but they dont have a personal,intimate relationship with him and,when you dont know god your mind gets confused and starts thinking all this things that you think,and you will never get your prayers anwers until that doubt is gone,god loves it when we are faithfull people but when theres no faith we shouldnt expect an answer to prayers,i recommend you to meditate in his word daily and the holy spirit will reaveal you the truth.By the way a lot of the best scientists in the world are christians.Evolution is a weapon from satan to confuse peoples mind,so be carefull dont be deceived by satan the prince of this world.God bless.
Hello I am at the moment a Christian, and have been all my life. But very recently I have started question allot of my beliefs. I just have a few questions which really have been (for better or worse) drawing myself out of believing in god.
I've been debating it allot with myself about some of these questions, which I’m confused about for almost a year. And I just wanted to before I made a decision see what other Christians can say to answer them.
1. When I read a fairytale or hear tales of things like unicorns I obviously know that these aren’t real. a friend one day asked me why I know this, which I obviously replied with well there is no evidence of them being real so they're are obviously make belief. Which my friend then replied “well that’s kinda the same for god and the bible, so how can they be real?”. This really did shock me as I am a firm believer in logic.
So how can I believe if I can’t see any firm evidence of god, and still believe in logic?
The teachings of Jesus are the most sublime expression of wisdom ever presented through anyone at anytime. That can be reasoned out. I think not being able to grasp that shows a lack of understanding or how to reason.
2. I am also very interested in science and have a firm belief in allot of the theories such as the big bang and evolution (I believed god caused the big bang). My same friend then questioned me again. Asking “well many scientists believe that there was complicated series of events that caused the big bang. Which I replied with “well god started those events". My friend then said “So you're going to label any unexplained cause with god did it, god made it happen. That is the stupidest theory ever, as you have no evidence and just label anything you don’t understand as god done it. How does that help?”
Which kinda troubles me, as the cause and effect theory could be labelled to explain anything without any actual evidence?
Theories are theories... he doesn't have proof God did not do it. And the theory of evolution and the theory of the big bang are just theories. He does not have proof or they would not be theories. So, he is hypocritical.
There is proof God is behind everything, but that is not something given to everyone at this time.
3. Ok so say I pray to god, and he never answers my prayers? Then why should I pray to him?
Wow. Sounds like you don't have any faith. God answers my prayers. I would try to build up faith... and also look to what you are praying for.
Persistence pays off. However, if you want God to show you a sign He is real, don't count on it. As Jesus pointed out adulterous people - people with impure hearts - do that. God is everywhere. Anyway, 'if people can't believe Moses and the prophets, they wouldn't believe even if a man were raised from the dead'...
4. Isn’t it less moral to good just because you want to do good for god, then to do good willingly in the benefit of others without wanting a reward? So why do people not in our religion get treated as less equal then us, as surely If they show goodness without wanting a reward, they far out do us in love?
Christians do good naturally because they are good. There may be some desire there to get approval from their Father. Which is normal and a healthy response.
5. Why is homosexuality seen as bad? When nearly everyone works on Sunday (the day of rest) the day that the bible says people should be put to death for working on?
The Sabbath pointed to a Millennium, it was spiritual and mystical. God made man and woman to be together... not man and man or woman and woman. It is unnatural. That is knowledge everyone knows in their hearts.
People shouldn't pretend "not to know", because God is not fooled.
Words, Words, Words, If you want to go the the Father, Go to my favorite verse.
Mark 15:38. You will see the Open Temple of the Father. Just go in and ask Him yourself.
The Heavens are now open. Go.
__________________ Mark 15:38 Enter into the Temple it is now open
to all.
Hello I am at the moment a Christian, and have been all my life. But very recently I have started question allot of my beliefs. I just have a few questions which really have been (for better or worse) drawing myself out of believing in god.
I've been debating it allot with myself about some of these questions, which I’m confused about for almost a year. And I just wanted to before I made a decision see what other Christians can say to answer them.
1. When I read a fairytale or hear tales of things like unicorns I obviously know that these aren’t real. a friend one day asked me why I know this, which I obviously replied with well there is no evidence of them being real so they're are obviously make belief. Which my friend then replied “well that’s kinda the same for god and the bible, so how can they be real?”. This really did shock me as I am a firm believer in logic.
So how can I believe if I can’t see any firm evidence of god, and still believe in logic?
2. I am also very interested in science and have a firm belief in allot of the theories such as the big bang and evolution (I believed god caused the big bang). My same friend then questioned me again. Asking “well many scientists believe that there was complicated series of events that caused the big bang. Which I replied with “well god started those events". My friend then said “So you're going to label any unexplained cause with god did it, god made it happen. That is the stupidest theory ever, as you have no evidence and just label anything you don’t understand as god done it. How does that help?”
Which kinda troubles me, as the cause and effect theory could be labelled to explain anything without any actual evidence?
3. Ok so say I pray to god, and he never answers my prayers? Then why should I pray to him?
4. Isn’t it less moral to good just because you want to do good for god, then to do good willingly in the benefit of others without wanting a reward? So why do people not in our religion get treated as less equal then us, as surely If they show goodness without wanting a reward, they far out do us in love?
5. Why is homosexuality seen as bad? When nearly everyone works on Sunday (the day of rest) the day that the bible says people should be put to death for working on?
Even if I attempted to answer your questions would you then understand?
Probably not.
The real answer is - we don't know and neither does your friend - quantum mechanics does not make sense even to physicists.
So the question you have to struggle with is - Can I live with not knowing?
__________________ Not all those who wander are lost
creation declares a creator....St. Thomas Acquinas proof of God, complexity and organization ....
no one knows....theory is the best guess to date....sound, as in genesis, the smallest particle of an atom ...the word of God, let there be....the big bang Gen 1 and John 1
by faith....mother theresa said to those who understand no explaination is necessary, to those who do not, none will suffice...hebrews 11.1,6
How is the Word different from ordinary words? Christians know that evil is an unholy spiritual force that is created by God but must be trained to be used in modesty, such as respecting each other when it comes to family and friendship where Satan can make love and respect as the same as sexual love. God destroyed humanity and animal in the Great Flood. He will not destroy humanity again because Jesus the son of God has sacrificed his life to save us. Our only evidence is how Christians can be victorious as courageous faithful believers, to fight crime and violence by visiting the church, the internet and countries that are suffering with poverty and prostitution.
__________________ I learn to accept Jesus Christ and our God the Father by default.
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