Sorry... I guess there are a few other things that I wanted to say. LOL
Bottomline... Abortion is never condoned or allowed in any situation and not for any reason. All life is precious and that is the Catholic Church teachings. Throwing in a bunch of "what ifs" doesn't cut it.
It is, what it is and as a Catholic... we submit in obedience to the Church in ALL of her teachings... including abortion.
As far as the death penalty goes, that is a completely different subject that would derail this thread.
But for the record... I'm pro-life all of the way... including I'm against the death penalty and most Catholics are against the death penalty and abortion.
When we vote, we need to try to vote for the lesser of the evils. There is no greater evil than abortion. There could some that are equal to it in some other life/death decisions, but abortion is the greatest evil because it takes life away from the most innocent and purest form of humanity... Which is a child that is robbed of ever living their life and is unwanted, rejected and killed by his or her mother. There is no greater evil than that.
Having moral theological discussions are fine and a great tool to learn from... but it's important that we don't stray from the fullness of objective truth which is that all life is precious and there are no exceptions that justify anyone having an abortion. It really is black and white... despite how some try to paint gray streaks in there... there are no gray compromising streaks. Abortion denies life to the innocent. It robs and destroys life.
I love what Mother Therese said about abortion... read my signature.
Yeah, abortion is really really bad. Try to stay on topic though, nobody in this thread indicated that they think abortion is good or even moderately accceptable. Davidnic did mention that there are circumstances that will reduce one's culpability if they seek or even perform an abortion, but that doesn't have any bearing on the gravity of the act and nobody stated or implied otherwise. Please re-read the original post and subsequent explainations and feel free to interject if you have anything to add to the topic at hand.
__________________ Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto, Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen
I don't think abortion is more evil than other killings of innocent people. Infanticide for example, or euthanasia of people with alzheimer or mentally handicapped people.
It sucks when you live in a country where there is not one pro-life party. Then you can't vote, ever.
Oh wait, we do have one party that is anti-abortion.
Sadly, they're also anti-women (women can't become members of their party, and they would prefer that women didn't have the right to vote), anti-catholics (yes, seriously, they see us as the antichrist), and they're pro-death penalty, which in my book is not pro-life.
Only in a direct democracy you don't have to let someone else represent you. No one can ever represent you fully. You have to compromise. We all have blood on our hands. All of us.
For Americans, it apparently trumps everything else. Which means that you have to vote republican or you are in mortal sin and going to hell.
Ridiculous, if you ask me.
Abortion is a serious evil, but when that is tempered by more deaths by capital punishment and more deaths in war, I do not think that the decision-making is so clear-cut.
Neither the death penalty nor all war are intrinsic evils. Abortion is an intrinsic evil that cannot be justified under any circumstance.
This is where I have issues too. Would it be wise to decide not to vote at all, because there will never be a way for political parties to allow us to have a clean conscience? At one hand I feel awful for voting for choices who allow abortion-on demand-- on the other hand, if they are pro-life, then they are also pro-death penalty, anti-child in other ways, etc.
BUT-- if one does not vote, then you have forfeited your right to state your opinions regarding the current state of affairs, because you didn't put that person into office. Know what I mean?
I really wish more consistent pro-life politicians would take headway. I honestly know of only a handful of Catholic pro-life politicians-- Kathy Dahlkemper for example-- and if more Catholics in politics would take a strong stand on their beliefs, voting would be a lot easier. I have yet to see that in my state, which is known for having a very liberal stance regarding abortion. I mean, if you have a button or sticker on your car that says "pro-life" you almost need to be careful. Especially at my university!
__________________ Dana (possessed by Zuul): Do you want this body?
This is where I have issues too. Would it be wise to decide not to vote at all, because there will never be a way for political parties to allow us to have a clean conscience? At one hand I feel awful for voting for choices who allow abortion-on demand-- on the other hand, if they are pro-life, then they are also pro-death penalty, anti-child in other ways, etc.
BUT-- if one does not vote, then you have forfeited your right to state your opinions regarding the current state of affairs, because you didn't put that person into office. Know what I mean?
I really wish more consistent pro-life politicians would take headway. I honestly know of only a handful of Catholic pro-life politicians-- Kathy Dahlkemper for example-- and if more Catholics in politics would take a strong stand on their beliefs, voting would be a lot easier. I have yet to see that in my state, which is known for having a very liberal stance regarding abortion. I mean, if you have a button or sticker on your car that says "pro-life" you almost need to be careful. Especially at my university!
Now that the political ban has been lifted, I suppose it's okay to share how we voted. I think I voted for Brownback. His stance on torture was not clear, but otherwise he seemed pretty solidly pro-life. It is my oppinion that we catholics will never be able to drive respect for life in government if we continuously vote for lesser evils. IMO, if you have an opportunity to vote for a truly pro-life candidate and maybe change the political landscape of the futre, you should do it. That isn't an option in the hypothetical I started this thread about though.
__________________ Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto, Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen
Sorry... I guess there are a few other things that I wanted to say. LOL
Bottomline... Abortion is never condoned or allowed in any situation and not for any reason. All life is precious and that is the Catholic Church teachings. Throwing in a bunch of "what ifs" doesn't cut it.
It is, what it is and as a Catholic... we submit in obedience to the Church in ALL of her teachings... including abortion.
As far as the death penalty goes, that is a completely different subject that would derail this thread.
But for the record... I'm pro-life all of the way... including I'm against the death penalty and most Catholics are against the death penalty and abortion.
When we vote, we need to try to vote for the lesser of the evils. There is no greater evil than abortion. There could some that are equal to it in some other life/death decisions, but abortion is the greatest evil because it takes life away from the most innocent and purest form of humanity... Which is a child that is robbed of ever living their life and is unwanted, rejected and killed by his or her mother. There is no greater evil than that.
Having moral theological discussions are fine and a great tool to learn from... but it's important that we don't stray from the fullness of objective truth which is that all life is precious and there are no exceptions that justify anyone having an abortion. It really is black and white... despite how some try to paint gray streaks in there... there are no gray compromising streaks. Abortion denies life to the innocent. It robs and destroys life.
I love what Mother Therese said about abortion... read my signature.
Well said D'Ann.
__________________ Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried - GK Chesterton
Now that the political ban has been lifted, I suppose it's okay to share how we voted. I think I voted for Brownback. His stance on torture was not clear, but otherwise he seemed pretty solidly pro-life. It is my oppinion that we catholics will never be able to drive respect for life in government if we continuously vote for lesser evils. IMO, if you have an opportunity to vote for a truly pro-life candidate and maybe change the political landscape of the futre, you should do it. That isn't an option in the hypothetical I started this thread about though.
i liked Brownback a lot, he is also for prison reform
__________________ VIVA CRISTO REY
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Basically then our vote is always chosen-- if you don't vote Republican, you're going to hell? There is no other way to sugarcoat it.
Our faith is not so simple. Voting for a Republican will neither protect a soul from going to hell nor will merely voting for a Democrat send a soul to hell. Many (most?) Republicans are not pro-life in the Catholic sence, and precious few Democrats are. As long as you vote for candidates who oppose all evils, regardless of political affiliation, I suspect you'l be fine. Do your best to vote against the death penalty, unjust war, torture, abortion and whatnot.
__________________ Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto, Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen
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