| One Bread, One Body - Catholic A forum open to Christians to discuss various Catholic beliefs and issues. |
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28th October 2009, 07:03 PM
|  | CF Policy ManagerHave Fun
  
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Reps: 670,469,667,826,288,640 (power: 670,469,667,826,312) | | Originally Posted by Krentis  Yup. From the OP:
"For the sake of simplicity, assume that you are only given two candidates to choose from."
Yes, I know "from" should have been "for". Oops.  I did not state that you are forced to vote in my hypothetical - though I think that if voting for the lesser cumulative evil will save lives one would be morally bound to do so (while also doing what he or she can outside the voting booth to improve the situation and create a culture of respect for all human life).
Do you have the freedom to not vote and vocally protest the situation in an organized and effective fashion? Because that would be another option.
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If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer.
Bob Casey Sr.
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28th October 2009, 08:14 PM
| | Regular Member
 
| | Join Date: 23rd September 2009
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Reps: 598,665,774,398,335 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Davidnic Do you have the freedom to not vote and vocally protest the situation in an organized and effective fashion? Because that would be another option.
You do. The question, I suppose, is would you vote "less death" while protesting, hoping to prevent some deaths or do you not vote at all and only protest, knowing that not voting might hand the election to the "more death" guy. Of course, if you vote "less death", you run the risk of making the "less death" candidate believe that you suppport his or her platform while you don't, you merely prefer less killing of anything over more killing of innocents.
Don't get me wrong, we all want more redheads, but not that way. |
28th October 2009, 08:32 PM
| | CF Policy ManagerHave Fun
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Reps: 670,469,667,826,288,640 (power: 670,469,667,826,312) | | Originally Posted by Krentis You do. The question, I suppose, is would you vote "less death" while protesting, hoping to prevent some deaths or do you not vote at all and only protest, knowing that not voting might hand the election to the "more death" guy. Of course, if you vote "less death", you run the risk of making the "less death" candidate believe that you suppport his or her platform while you don't, you merely prefer less killing of anything over more killing of innocents.
Don't get me wrong, we all want more redheads, but not that way.
My call is protest and don't vote. That way you are not actively promoting any evil. Unless there is some proof that by not voting you give the election to the kill read head guy. Then the issue of unjust alternative choice might come into play. But I do not think that can apply to intrinsic evil. I'll look it up.
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If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer.
Bob Casey Sr.
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28th October 2009, 08:35 PM
|  | stumbling sweetheart
   
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Reps: 2,414,166,296,656,378,880 (power: 2,414,166,296,656,402) | | | if voting for a pro-choice candidate goes against your conscience, don't do it.
__________________ I miss Mom's meatballs
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Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
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28th October 2009, 09:53 PM
|  | Thanks for the memories...
 
| | Join Date: 5th February 2002 Location: Mojave Desert...I'm not kidding
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Reps: 78,720,235,563,937,936 (power: 78,720,235,563,970) | | | The problem with voting your 'conscience' is that almost none of us have a perfectly formed conscience. And many of us can rationalize almost anything. Doesn't make us morally right. IMHO, voting for a candidate who supports abortion, while maintaining a pro-life stance...sophistry in motion. Until we can claim a perfectly formed conscience, we must rely on the Church to guide us. That's why Our Lord left her for us.
Peace be with you,
Sandy
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Corry Patrick
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28th October 2009, 10:08 PM
| | stumbling sweetheart
| | Join Date: 23rd August 2007
Posts: 18,300
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Reps: 2,414,166,296,656,378,880 (power: 2,414,166,296,656,402) | | Originally Posted by ZooMom The problem with voting your 'conscience' is that almost none of us have a perfectly formed conscience. And many of us can rationalize almost anything. Doesn't make us morally right. IMHO, voting for a candidate who supports abortion, while maintaining a pro-life stance...sophistry in motion. Until we can claim a perfectly formed conscience, we must rely on the Church to guide us. That's why Our Lord left her for us.
Peace be with you,
Sandy
Yeah, sometimes we think our conscience is voting for someone who is OK with abortion, so I guess my statement is really off LOL
__________________ I miss Mom's meatballs
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Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
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28th October 2009, 10:09 PM
|  | Catholic... Faith, Hope and the greatest is LOVE
| | Join Date: 28th October 2004
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Reps: 278,637,546,695,412,352 (power: 278,637,546,695,462) | | Originally Posted by ZooMom I am in 100% agreement with David. S'all I gotta say. 
I agree too with David and that's all I gotta say as well.
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Where Peter is, there is the Church. Where the Church is, there is eternal Life.
"The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father's role in an increasingly fatherless society"- Mother Theresa
"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion?
As always, we must persuade her with love, and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even his life to love us. So the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love - that is, to give until it hurts... her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts. By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems.
And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion". - Mother Theresa
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28th October 2009, 10:14 PM
| | Catholic... Faith, Hope and the greatest is LOVE
| | Join Date: 28th October 2004
Posts: 42,480
Blessings: 32,977,150 My Mood
Reps: 278,637,546,695,412,352 (power: 278,637,546,695,462) | | | Sorry... I guess there are a few other things that I wanted to say. LOL
Bottomline... Abortion is never condoned or allowed in any situation and not for any reason. All life is precious and that is the Catholic Church teachings. Throwing in a bunch of "what ifs" doesn't cut it.
It is, what it is and as a Catholic... we submit in obedience to the Church in ALL of her teachings... including abortion.
As far as the death penalty goes, that is a completely different subject that would derail this thread.
But for the record... I'm pro-life all of the way... including I'm against the death penalty and most Catholics are against the death penalty and abortion.
When we vote, we need to try to vote for the lesser of the evils. There is no greater evil than abortion. There could some that are equal to it in some other life/death decisions, but abortion is the greatest evil because it takes life away from the most innocent and purest form of humanity... Which is a child that is robbed of ever living their life and is unwanted, rejected and killed by his or her mother. There is no greater evil than that.
Having moral theological discussions are fine and a great tool to learn from... but it's important that we don't stray from the fullness of objective truth which is that all life is precious and there are no exceptions that justify anyone having an abortion. It really is black and white... despite how some try to paint gray streaks in there... there are no gray compromising streaks. Abortion denies life to the innocent. It robs and destroys life.
I love what Mother Therese said about abortion... read my signature.
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Where Peter is, there is the Church. Where the Church is, there is eternal Life.
"The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father's role in an increasingly fatherless society"- Mother Theresa
"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion?
As always, we must persuade her with love, and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even his life to love us. So the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love - that is, to give until it hurts... her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts. By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems.
And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion". - Mother Theresa
Last edited by D'Ann; 28th October 2009 at 10:24 PM.
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28th October 2009, 10:16 PM
| | Thanks for the memories...
| | Join Date: 5th February 2002 Location: Mojave Desert...I'm not kidding
Posts: 22,599
Blessings: 1,595,155
Reps: 78,720,235,563,937,936 (power: 78,720,235,563,970) | | Originally Posted by Lady Bug Yeah, sometimes we think our conscience is voting for someone who is OK with abortion, so I guess my statement is really off LOL  Not really, sweetie. And voting our consciences would be ideal....if we are assured that our consciences align with Church teaching. Can be a dilemma. If there is any doubt or hesitation...best course is to always go with what the Church says.
Peace be with you!
Sandy
__________________ Mommy of: Brittany Anne
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Corry Patrick
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Andrew Riley
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28th October 2009, 10:21 PM
| | Catholic... Faith, Hope and the greatest is LOVE
| | Join Date: 28th October 2004
Posts: 42,480
Blessings: 32,977,150 My Mood
Reps: 278,637,546,695,412,352 (power: 278,637,546,695,462) | | |
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Where Peter is, there is the Church. Where the Church is, there is eternal Life.
"The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father's role in an increasingly fatherless society"- Mother Theresa
"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion?
As always, we must persuade her with love, and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even his life to love us. So the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love - that is, to give until it hurts... her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts. By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems.
And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion". - Mother Theresa
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