| Conservative Christians A forum for conservative Christians of all denominations. |  | | 
6th November 2009, 01:04 PM
|  | Veteran
 | | Join Date: 14th June 2006
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Reps: 449,146,267,979,360,896 (power: 449,146,267,979,370) | | | Because the church as fallen asleep-not all of it as there is a remnant. Much of the church looks to see what the culture does and followings accordingly. This isn't what Jesus taught at all as we are suppose to be a light on a hill and the salt to the culture. Sadly, just the opposite has occurred. People think marriage today is dating-it isn't. When one gets married, your making a covenant with you mate and God. People have become so self centered. My close and personal friends are like me in that they take marriage very seriously and have been married for at least 20 years. They don't play the revolving door partner vain game.
__________________ -Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -Abortion - 45 million dead babies and growing **Proverbs 6:16-17 - states that there are seven things that are an abomination to the Lord; one of them is the shedding of innocent blood. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind, Albert Einstein. Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God, Benjamin Franklin | 
17th November 2009, 10:45 AM
|  | Veteran 79 
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Toledo, Oregon
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Reps: 129,172,936,699,243,776 (power: 129,172,936,699,254) | | | Divorce is not the problem, getting married without letting God choose your mate is. Pastors should refuse to marry a couple until everyone involved is positive God has brought the couple together. When the Bible says "God hates divorce" it is referring to marriages HE has ordained. Simply because a couple gets civilly married in a church does not make it GOD'S marriage.
__________________ In Him, Bob Allen | 
17th November 2009, 02:10 PM
|  | New dad of three kids in the process of adoption. 34  | | Join Date: 30th March 2007 Location: Virgo Supercluster
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Reps: 610,131,166,901,733,632 (power: 610,131,166,901,744) | | Originally Posted by johnd God hates divorce.
Malachi 2:16
16 “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
There are more reasons, but to answer the OP with a bottom line point: most people (believers included) are too worldly and too selfish. Divorce is a symptom of selfishness. And rather than lose congregants, votes, popularity, friends, etc. divorce had to be accomodated.
I am 48, when I was a child divorce was looked down upon and divorcees were like adulterers. Then it became the court of last resort, then the abuse excuse, then the "till something better comes along" it is today.
Unfortunately, we as a society have a knack for replacing one set of ungodly attitudes (in this case, judgmental and ostracizing attitudes towards sinners) with another (in this case, embracing the sin along with the sinner). Sadly, there are some who believe that the solution to the latter is to return to the former, but both extremes are contrary to Biblical teachings.
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17th November 2009, 02:22 PM
| | Newbie
 | | Join Date: 2nd January 2009 Location: Cape Town , South Africa
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Reps: 18,600,522,114,653 (power: 18,600,522,118) | | Originally Posted by caman I'm not talking about in cases of abuse, neglect, drugs, etc. I'm talking about in terms of the normal ups and downs of life and the stages of relationships/life.
I for one was ready for divorce a number of years ago before a group of friends forced me to talk about what was going on and helped me through some difficult things. Since then, I have heard more and more stories where friends did the opposite of mine and were okay with people getting divorced rather than encouraging them to work on it.
I have even heard of more and more pastors saying that a couple should consider divorce, even if they have never talked to a marriage counselor or gone to a marriage retreat.
Why are many Christians okay with divorce today? Are there such things as irreconcilable differences or are most things in relationships reconcilable differences that take people working on themselves rather than working on their spouses? How does a Christian justify divorce as an option? Is all divorce a sin?
Loss of fear towards God and desensitizing of moral beliefs through the media, movies, tv, etc. Media is brainwashing man and is giving guidance for life. People are puppets if they are not freed by Jesus Christ!
Many people might not even know that God hates divorce, for it breaks up the family, causes in many cases dysfunctional kids, causes lifetime sorrow, unforgiveness, etc.....divorce is the primary goal of satan, for then his job has become much easier to deceive the sorry souls...... | 
4th December 2009, 07:32 PM
|  | Just holding on

| | Join Date: 4th June 2004 Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,044
Blessings: 313,496
Reps: 13,330,396,958,135,830 (power: 13,330,396,958,145) | | Originally Posted by twistedsketch Well, what constitutes "abuse," or less excusably, "neglect"? These are not clearly defined, and leave so much room for rationalizing. But that's what a lot of people claim.
Neglect can be worked with. Real abuse . . . I don't know. But I really do think that people should go through counseling before they get their divorces. That would weed out a lot of the crap excuses.
Are we being serious here?
As someone who has been witness to abuse happening in marriages, I get a little angry when I see people sitting questioning the validity of abuse which has been substantiated, or neglect which has been substantiated.
I have a family friend whose husband left her bloody after he was done with her, and then cared less about her when it came to trying to heal what was left of their marriage. The man did not give a hoot about her in anyway, and she was the one struggling to allow healing in their relationship.
I have a relative who abused his wife and did not want to change his behavior even though my other relatives intervened and tried to offer him help. This man was so out of control when he was drunk, he started abusing his own child in public without consequence. It got to the point where finally, his wife left taking their child with her.
I also have an old high school friend whose dad was sexually molesting her for years and she hid it from her mother. Finally when her mother did find out, she told her dad that either get help, or leave them alone. The father was unwilling to stop raping his daughter. According to my friend, her father said that he would rather have sex with his own daughter than with her mother. After realizing that the man really was very sick and would not willingly get help, my friend's mother sought a divorce and had full custody. Thank goodness her mother didn't just sit around and pretend like nothing was happening.
Oh man...I could seriously go off all day about how people question abuse. That's the main reason why I don't talk about the abuse that happened between my family, because people always say "well what constitutes child abuse?" Being beat to a bloody pulp does, DUH. Same thing with partner abuse and marital abuse. You can't make a person go to counseling with you or without you. If they're that unwilling to go, what says they are willing to make a genuine change in their behavior?
How in the world are actual cases of neglect and abuse "crap excuses"? As someone who has experienced abuse, I would in no way judge someone who wanted a divorce right away because of abuse. IMO, abusers don't want to truly change...they just hold back on what they really want to do. It's one thing for a spouse to say "oh man, I shouldn't have hit/beat/abused my wife/husband like that, I completely messed up and need help", versus the person who claims with full confidence that they never did anything wrong.
__________________ Dana (possessed by Zuul): Do you want this body?
Dr. Venkman: Is this a trick question?
-Ghostbusters | 
5th December 2009, 07:59 AM
|  | Born Imperishable

| | Join Date: 23rd February 2004
Posts: 23,369
Blessings: 415,098,645 My Mood
Reps: 664,114,628,762,749,312 (power: 664,114,628,762,780) | | Originally Posted by Browneyes84 Are we being serious here?
As someone who has been witness to abuse happening in marriages, I get a little angry when I see people sitting questioning the validity of abuse which has been substantiated, or neglect which has been substantiated.
I have a family friend whose husband left her bloody after he was done with her, and then cared less about her when it came to trying to heal what was left of their marriage. The man did not give a hoot about her in anyway, and she was the one struggling to allow healing in their relationship.
I have a relative who abused his wife and did not want to change his behavior even though my other relatives intervened and tried to offer him help. This man was so out of control when he was drunk, he started abusing his own child in public without consequence. It got to the point where finally, his wife left taking their child with her.
I also have an old high school friend whose dad was sexually molesting her for years and she hid it from her mother. Finally when her mother did find out, she told her dad that either get help, or leave them alone. The father was unwilling to stop raping his daughter. According to my friend, her father said that he would rather have sex with his own daughter than with her mother. After realizing that the man really was very sick and would not willingly get help, my friend's mother sought a divorce and had full custody. Thank goodness her mother didn't just sit around and pretend like nothing was happening.
Oh man...I could seriously go off all day about how people question abuse. That's the main reason why I don't talk about the abuse that happened between my family, because people always say "well what constitutes child abuse?" Being beat to a bloody pulp does, DUH. Same thing with partner abuse and marital abuse. You can't make a person go to counseling with you or without you. If they're that unwilling to go, what says they are willing to make a genuine change in their behavior?
How in the world are actual cases of neglect and abuse "crap excuses"? As someone who has experienced abuse, I would in no way judge someone who wanted a divorce right away because of abuse. IMO, abusers don't want to truly change...they just hold back on what they really want to do. It's one thing for a spouse to say "oh man, I shouldn't have hit/beat/abused my wife/husband like that, I completely messed up and need help", versus the person who claims with full confidence that they never did anything wrong.
The examples you gave are clear-cut examples of abuse, no question. What I'm calling questionable is much more mild, such as yelling at your spouse. Not that it's right, but I'm sorry that is not in the same league as what you mentioned. Yet, in some minds that passes for abuse. It seems as though people are looking to expand what is perceived as abuse, rather than keeping it to the real abuse, such as the examples you mentioned. When I think of abuse, I think of stuff like beatings, sexual abuse, starving, burning, throwing things, and so forth. What some other people think of abuse would be yelling and pounding the table. It's a joke and the more liberal definition can be a total discredit to the real abuse that is going on. While none of it is right, one level of indiscretions can be worked with because nobody's in danger. You can't say that about the next level.
__________________ Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
- Proverbs 30:5-6
Sovereignty is not racism. | 
5th December 2009, 12:39 PM
| | Newbie
 | | Join Date: 16th August 2009 Location: South of Canada, North of Mexico
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Reps: 62,423,191,749,994,920 (power: 62,423,191,749,998) | | | I don't think most people are ok with divorce, but what should we do? Force people to stay married? | 
5th December 2009, 06:04 PM
|  | Veteran 79 
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Toledo, Oregon
Posts: 2,458
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Reps: 129,172,936,699,243,776 (power: 129,172,936,699,254) | | | Divorce is not the problem. It is not necessarily a sin or unforgivable. The problem for Christians is getting married without God's approval in the first place. A church wedding does not mean it's approved by God.
__________________ In Him, Bob Allen | 
6th December 2009, 01:47 AM
|  | Just holding on

| | Join Date: 4th June 2004 Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,044
Blessings: 313,496
Reps: 13,330,396,958,135,830 (power: 13,330,396,958,145) | | Originally Posted by twistedsketch The examples you gave are clear-cut examples of abuse, no question. What I'm calling questionable is much more mild, such as yelling at your spouse. Not that it's right, but I'm sorry that is not in the same league as what you mentioned. Yet, in some minds that passes for abuse. It seems as though people are looking to expand what is perceived as abuse, rather than keeping it to the real abuse, such as the examples you mentioned. When I think of abuse, I think of stuff like beatings, sexual abuse, starving, burning, throwing things, and so forth. What some other people think of abuse would be yelling and pounding the table. It's a joke and the more liberal definition can be a total discredit to the real abuse that is going on. While none of it is right, one level of indiscretions can be worked with because nobody's in danger. You can't say that about the next level.
Okay so we have an understanding here. It's just that I've seen too many instances of where a spouse is observably abusive to their partner and noone considers it abuse. "Oh it's just a little hit". Drives me bonkers
Is there not such a thing as verbal or emotional abuse? Such as when a spouse uses callous language, threatens your life, manipulates you into co-dependency, etc.? If a parent is able to verbally and emotionally abuse their child, don't we think that an adult is capable of the same thing? I have also seen examples of where a partner will verbally abuse their spouse and insist that it's protected within their First Amendment rights  Is it okay to threaten your spouses' life, prevent them from seeing their own family and friends by making threats, telling them that they are worthless, etc.? Yes, these are all things I have seen...and unfortunately have experienced myself.
I get that yelling-- plain and simple I'm t*cked off at you yelling is not abuse-- and yes, slamming your hand hard on a table can be quite scary, but I believe often of what's said and how it's said can make a difference. In one of my classes, the prof. recounted a domestic abuse case where a child would wet himself without control at the sound of a man's voice because he was so instilled with the verbal abuse his father had exposed to him.
Abuse is when a very real perceived threat is being pointed to another person. However, there are behaviors which are not acceptable, such as breaking down a door, flailing around a knife, etc. Unacceptable behaviors such as these are not reasons for divorce IMO when they are freestanding, but if the knife was used in order to inflict abuse, or breaking down a door was used to instill fear and manipulate a spouse, then yes I would call that abusive behavior.
And what happens when a spouse is raping one of their children, refuses to stop and refuses to change? Don't even get me started on that.
Revrobor is right...people do marry without taking the proper steps to ensure that they are fully prepared and are mature enough to handle the ups and downs.
__________________ Dana (possessed by Zuul): Do you want this body?
Dr. Venkman: Is this a trick question?
-Ghostbusters | 
6th December 2009, 01:33 PM
|  | Veteran 33  | | Join Date: 11th February 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 3,986
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,786) | | Originally Posted by johnd God hates divorce.
Malachi 2:16
16 “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
There are more reasons, but to answer the OP with a bottom line point: most people (believers included) are too worldly and too selfish. Divorce is a symptom of selfishness. And rather than lose congregants, votes, popularity, friends, etc. divorce had to be accomodated.
I am 48, when I was a child divorce was looked down upon and divorcees were like adulterers. Then it became the court of last resort, then the abuse excuse, then the "till something better comes along" it is today. I agree with this post.
__________________ John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Exodus 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. Matthew 23:9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
Sola Fide (Faith Alone), Sola Gratia (Grace Alone), Solus Christus (Christ Alone), Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone), Soli Deo Gloria (Glory To God Alone). |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |