Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Society > Society > Physical & Life Sciences
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Physical & Life Sciences A forum for physics, biology, chemistry and other physical sciences.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27th October 2009, 07:41 AM
MorkandMindy's Avatar
Senior Member

Country: United Kingdom Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 16th December 2006
Location: Oxfordshire England
Posts: 1,646
Blessings: 32,846
Reps: 165,010,113,009 (power: 165,010,117)
MorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond repute
MorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond repute
Evidence

If a few thousand years ago someone spilt a cup of water somewhere it would not be surprising if no geological record of the event had been found

A second cup of water would not make it a geological event either, nor a third

And whether this water came from within the water cycle or came in to it from a volcano or a comet would also leave no evidence

Just because we have no evidence the flood didn’t occur doesn’t prove it didn’t

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 27th October 2009, 10:06 AM
Dark_Lite's Avatar
Vatican Black Helicopter Commander

Faith: Catholic Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 15th February 2002
Posts: 6,321
Blessings: 62,015
Reps: 225,397,061,601,403 (power: 225,397,061,615)
Dark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond repute
Dark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond repute
This is probably a poe... but anyway.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you are correct.

The problem with the flood is that the evidence that is present disproves that the flood could've happened. So... that's a problem.
__________________
Don't worry, I'm from the Church and I'm here to help!
There is no conspiracy. Come along. The helicopter's waiting.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27th October 2009, 12:17 PM
jayem's Avatar
Naturalist

58 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 24th June 2003
Posts: 4,035
Blessings: 39,527
Reps: 148,993,696,364 (power: 148,993,707)
jayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond repute
jayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond reputejayem has a reputation beyond repute
But a supposed world-wide flood, as a single event, with water levels covering even the highest mountains, and nearly extincting all land animals, would be expected to leave geological evidence.
__________________
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. --- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27th October 2009, 12:30 PM
Dark_Lite's Avatar
Vatican Black Helicopter Commander

Faith: Catholic Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 15th February 2002
Posts: 6,321
Blessings: 62,015
Reps: 225,397,061,601,403 (power: 225,397,061,615)
Dark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond repute
Dark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by jayem View Post
But a supposed world-wide flood, as a single event, with water levels covering even the highest mountains, and nearly extincting all land animals, would be expected to leave geological evidence.
Well, there is geological evidence. But the problem is that the geological evidence there is does not point to a global flood.
__________________
Don't worry, I'm from the Church and I'm here to help!
There is no conspiracy. Come along. The helicopter's waiting.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27th October 2009, 04:15 PM
AV1611VET's Avatar
SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

55 Married Faith: Baptist Country: United States Member For 3 Years Seraphim
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 18th June 2006
Location: The Bermuda Rectangle
Posts: 1,047,782
Blessings: 15,983,729
My Mood Cool
Reps: 233,049,709,482,095,776 (power: 233,049,709,483,146)
AV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond repute
AV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Dark_Lite View Post
The problem with the flood is that the evidence that is present disproves that the flood could've happened. So... that's a problem.
No, it's not.

Evidence can be interpreted.

And even though it can be correlated with different types of evidence from different sources, all that shows is an ability to correlate.

In addition, it's not the evidence that matters, it's the weight of the evidence --- (someone correct me if I'm wrong, please).

If you have an ice core sample, showing a 7000-year period of manufacture, alongside of a tree core sample from the same vicinity showing a 7000-year period of growth, I would still go with the weight of God's Word over the weight of those two correlated objects; even if every artifact on earth was correlated.

Let God be true, and every man a liar (including me), if that's what it has to come down to.
__________________
GOD DID IT --- CASE CLOSED
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27th October 2009, 04:29 PM
Wiccan_Child's Avatar
Contributor

21 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Party: UK-Liberal-Democrats Country: United Kingdom Member For 4 Years Fisherman
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 21st March 2005
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 9,750
Blessings: 71,008
My Mood Mellow
Reps: 95,624,435,719,773 (power: 95,624,435,733)
Wiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond repute
Wiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond reputeWiccan_Child has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by MorkandMindy View Post
If a few thousand years ago someone spilt a cup of water somewhere it would not be surprising if no geological record of the event had been found

A second cup of water would not make it a geological event either, nor a third

And whether this water came from within the water cycle or came in to it from a volcano or a comet would also leave no evidence

Just because we have no evidence the flood didn’t occur doesn’t prove it didn’t

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
It doesn't prove it didn't occur, but it makes it very unlikely. So, in that regard, the absence of evidence is evidence of absence (albeit indirect).
__________________
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin

"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1

What can be asserted without reason, can be denied without reason.
- Anon

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27th October 2009, 09:21 PM
MorkandMindy's Avatar
Senior Member

Country: United Kingdom Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 16th December 2006
Location: Oxfordshire England
Posts: 1,646
Blessings: 32,846
Reps: 165,010,113,009 (power: 165,010,117)
MorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond repute
MorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
...

If you have an ice core sample, showing a 7000-year period of manufacture, alongside of a tree core sample from the same vicinity showing a 7000-year period of growth
...
Sorry to snip it, but you're in good company - it happens to the Bible too!


I remember reading C.S. Lewis who stated that even if the first trees had been made in a moment, they could still have contained rings and therefore had an apparent age.

But the rings in the trees are not even, they show evidence of some good years and some bad ones... and this pattern matches in all of the trees except in some trees the pattern is followed further out and others further in indicating older and younger trees... and in another forest the pattern is similar but different, again through all the trees

so just accidentally leaving rings that could have been interpreted as age starts to look more like a deliberate act of deception
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27th October 2009, 10:16 PM
plindboe's Avatar
Senior Member

32 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Country: Denmark Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 29th February 2004
Location: In my pants
Posts: 1,271
Blessings: 31,366
My Mood Sleepy
Reps: 30,332,100,281 (power: 30,332,107)
plindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond repute
plindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond reputeplindboe has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by MorkandMindy View Post
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Not necessarily true. If I search through my pocket for money and I can't find any, that's evidence that there's no money in my pocket.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27th October 2009, 10:22 PM
AV1611VET's Avatar
SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

55 Married Faith: Baptist Country: United States Member For 3 Years Seraphim
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 18th June 2006
Location: The Bermuda Rectangle
Posts: 1,047,782
Blessings: 15,983,729
My Mood Cool
Reps: 233,049,709,482,095,776 (power: 233,049,709,483,146)
AV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond repute
AV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond reputeAV1611VET has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by plindboe View Post
Not necessarily true.
Interesting word choice.

Just because a principle doesn't apply to a given situation, doesn't make it 'untrue'.

It makes it, 'not applicable'.
__________________
GOD DID IT --- CASE CLOSED
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27th October 2009, 10:23 PM
MorkandMindy's Avatar
Senior Member

Country: United Kingdom Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 16th December 2006
Location: Oxfordshire England
Posts: 1,646
Blessings: 32,846
Reps: 165,010,113,009 (power: 165,010,117)
MorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond repute
MorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond reputeMorkandMindy has a reputation beyond repute
The accident / deception debate continues into all other forms of dating.

Radio carbon has a half life of 5730 years so is useful for the events within the last 26,000 years and overlaps with tree ring dating, which is used to improve the accuracy of C14 dating. There are many forms of radio isotope dating, most with fewer problems than C14 dating, which in some cases go back billions of years, and agree where they overlap, with each other.

And there are non-isotope forms of dating such as racemization of amino acids

In 1900 an estimate based on the rate the oceans are gaining salt, gave a figure of 80 to 100 million years, but these are minimum values because salt is also lost from the oceans.

In my own personal life I looked at what appeared to be annual sediment lines in the rocks along my grandmother’s long gravel drive, over a kilometre with lines averaging 2 mm thick came out at ½ million years.

For a YEC this was not a comforting thought, and I never did work out if or why God chose in so many ways to deceive so many people
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Physical & Life Sciences

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:11 PM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios