| Ethics & Morality A forum for the discussion and debate of ethics & morality open to all members. |
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4th November 2009, 07:03 PM
| | God?? What do you mean?
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Reps: 21,124,454,843,429,512 (power: 21,124,454,843,460) | | Originally Posted by PreachersWife2004  Two straight parents couldn't possibly teach that as well?
This isn´t even a hypothetical.
Considering how many people support gay rights and gay marriage it is safe to say that more straight persons teach their children that homosexuality is ok than there are gay persons altogether.
__________________ Why I call myself a „non-believer“ or „atheist“:
I can´t relate to any of the god concepts I´m familiar with so far.
Either I´m not convinced by the concept, or
– although not having a problem with the worldview itself -
I see no reason to call one of its elements „God“:
There are already more precise, more common, less loaded and less likely to be misunderstood terms for these elements.
E.g. I prefer to call nature „nature“, the universe „universe“ and everything „everything“.
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4th November 2009, 07:07 PM
| | God?? What do you mean?
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Reps: 21,124,454,843,429,512 (power: 21,124,454,843,460) | | Originally Posted by Blitzman The argument is based out of pure hatred for gays. People like him have no moral compass, can't be trusted and shouldn't be listened to. The only thing that seperates him from the crazy muslims that strap bombs to themselves is that he lacks the courage of his convictions.
But you have to admit that the term "dysfunctional" has a scientific ring to it. 
__________________ Why I call myself a „non-believer“ or „atheist“:
I can´t relate to any of the god concepts I´m familiar with so far.
Either I´m not convinced by the concept, or
– although not having a problem with the worldview itself -
I see no reason to call one of its elements „God“:
There are already more precise, more common, less loaded and less likely to be misunderstood terms for these elements.
E.g. I prefer to call nature „nature“, the universe „universe“ and everything „everything“.
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4th November 2009, 11:33 PM
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Reps: 1,971,034,352,550,617 (power: 1,971,034,352,562) | | Originally Posted by Blitzman It boils down to this. People who want to see kids grow up in ophanages rather than with someone who lives a life they don't like, but can love them and care for them none the less, and are willing to through the complicated process of getting them, are genuinely bad people with such a twisted moral compass they end up having the push the proverbial old lady in front of a car when tryin to help her across the road.
Such people are a disgrace to humanity, their opinions on anything moral are only valuable in the sense that whatever they say is moral, is usually always immoral.
There is no legit reason for not allowing gays to adopt unwanted kids except that you hate gay people, and want to hurt them and make them suffer even if it means denying a child a good home. Their hatred of gays is only exceeded by their cowardliness to do anything about it. 
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First they ignore you...
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win.
Mahatma Ghandi
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5th November 2009, 02:32 AM
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Reps: 3,101,825,598,494,030 (power: 3,101,825,598,497) | | Originally Posted by Blitzman It boils down to this. People who want to see kids grow up in ophanages rather than with someone who lives a life they don't like, but can love them and care for them none the less, and are willing to through the complicated process of getting them, are genuinely bad people with such a twisted moral compass they end up having the push the proverbial old lady in front of a car when tryin to help her across the road.
Such people are a disgrace to humanity, their opinions on anything moral are only valuable in the sense that whatever they say is moral, is usually always immoral.
There is no legit reason for not allowing gays to adopt unwanted kids except that you hate gay people, and want to hurt them and make them suffer even if it means denying a child a good home. Their hatred of gays is only exceeded by their cowardliness to do anything about it.
- Except that being gay is a perversion. Why should anyone allow a person that perverts God's moral standard, to adopt a child, and teach that child moral perversion; if only by the child seeing that it is okay to be perverted by virtue of the parents being perverted?
- It must be okay to be gay because my parents are gay.
- Christians do not hate gay people, they hate the sin. We love gay people and want them to turn away from sin and towards Jesus Christ. But we cannot promote something that God tells us not to do in His Word.
- He gives us His standard in Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
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If the Bible is not true, then nothing makes any sense.
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5th November 2009, 02:38 AM
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Reps: 1,344,940,743,831,579,648 (power: 1,344,940,743,831,585) | | Originally Posted by Shephatiah - Except that being gay is a perversion. Why should anyone allow a person that perverts God's moral standard, to adopt a child, and teach that child moral perversion; if only by the child seeing that it is okay to be perverted by virtue of the parents being perverted?
- It must be okay to be gay because my parents are gay.
- Christians do not hate gay people, they hate the sin. We love gay people and want them to turn away from sin and towards Jesus Christ.
I know plenty of gay Christians. What happens do you suppose to them? They love God and act compassionately. They help the homeless.....just like Jesus asked. They believe...but yet, what do you suppose God will do with them? Will they be cast into a fiery inferno where straight Christians will watch as they writhe in agony for all eternity praising Jesus the whole time?
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5th November 2009, 03:04 AM
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Reps: 3,101,825,598,494,030 (power: 3,101,825,598,497) | | Originally Posted by RevSJamison I know plenty of gay Christians. What happens do you suppose to them? They love God and act compassionately. They help the homeless.....just like Jesus asked. They believe...but yet, what do you suppose God will do with them? Will they be cast into a fiery inferno where straight Christians will watch as they writhe in agony for all eternity praising Jesus the whole time?
- Again, there is no such thing as a gay Christian. When one is in Christ old things are past away, all things have become new. And such were some of you, but you are washed, you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
- Do you think that there will be homosexuals in Heaven? How about murderers? Thieves? Liars? Adulterers? Fornicators? Is there any corruption in heaven?
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If the Bible is not true, then nothing makes any sense.
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5th November 2009, 04:55 AM
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Reps: 4,405,951,397,236,971 (power: 4,405,951,397,242) | | Originally Posted by Shephatiah - Again, there is no such thing as a gay Christian. When one is in Christ old things are past away, all things have become new. And such were some of you, but you are washed, you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
- Do you think that there will be homosexuals in Heaven? How about murderers? Thieves? Liars? Adulterers? Fornicators? Is there any corruption in heaven?
I don't see how you are in a position to tell anyone who is in heaven.
Considering that your religion states that all of us are sinners, that none of us humans are in a position to judge others, that those that seek forgiveness for their sins are pardoned due to the mercy of God... I don't see how you can say anything on this matter with any certainty.
Who went to heaven - the good Samaritan or the Pharisees? Both? Neither? You have no idea. |
5th November 2009, 05:23 AM
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Reps: 21,035,414,649,071,584 (power: 21,035,414,649,077) | | Originally Posted by Shephatiah - Again, there is no such thing as a gay Christian. When one is in Christ old things are past away, all things have become new. And such were some of you, but you are washed, you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
- Do you think that there will be homosexuals in Heaven? How about murderers? Thieves? Liars? Adulterers? Fornicators? Is there any corruption in heaven?
You are edging close to breaking the forum rules here, in that you are trying to say that some people who identify as Christian are not actualy Christians.
IIRC, the definition of 'Christian' on this site is someone who accepts the Nicean Creed. There is nothing in the Creed that rules out homosexuality.
Paul's letters are not part of the Gospels, and a reading of them that considers the cultural context of the time in which he was writing them and of the groups he was writing to does not support a blanket condemnation of commited relationships either.  |
5th November 2009, 06:30 AM
| | God?? What do you mean?
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Reps: 21,124,454,843,429,512 (power: 21,124,454,843,460) | | Originally Posted by Shephatiah - Again, there is no such thing as a gay Christian. When one is in Christ old things are past away, all things have become new. And such were some of you, but you are washed, you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Fundamentalist redefinition project, anyone?
The poster said "Christian" and presumably meant what the word is commonly understood as: "A believer in the Christian teachings", notwithstanding what your "in Christ" might mean. - Do you think that there will be homosexuals in Heaven? How about murderers? Thieves? Liars? Adulterers? Fornicators?
I am not sure I understand the question. There are two very different ways to read it:
1. Do you think that persons who have lied or murdered or stolen or adultered or [insert any sin of choice] in their life on earth will get to heaven?
2. Do you think that persons will commit murder, adultery, theft etc. in heaven?
Seeing that the Christian doctrine postulates that literally everyone is a sinner, I don´t know how the answer to question 1 could be anything but "yes" (or we would have to assume that nobody gets to heaven). As far as I understand the Christian doctrine that´s exactly why people need to be washed, cleansed, rinsed, sanctified before the are admitted to heaven.
Seeing that heaven is pictured as a place without suffering the answer to the second question would have to be "no" - with one other option: suffering in heaven is impossible because people are immune against pain, frustration, etc. Is there any corruption in heaven?
I suspect the correct answer is "no", right?
But I don´t seem to understand what all this has to do with anything.
The point in discussions were gay Christians here on earth, not in heaven.
__________________ Why I call myself a „non-believer“ or „atheist“:
I can´t relate to any of the god concepts I´m familiar with so far.
Either I´m not convinced by the concept, or
– although not having a problem with the worldview itself -
I see no reason to call one of its elements „God“:
There are already more precise, more common, less loaded and less likely to be misunderstood terms for these elements.
E.g. I prefer to call nature „nature“, the universe „universe“ and everything „everything“.
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5th November 2009, 06:46 AM
|  | Contributor
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | Originally Posted by Shephatiah - Except that being gay is a perversion. Why should anyone allow a person that perverts God's moral standard, to adopt a child, and teach that child moral perversion; if only by the child seeing that it is okay to be perverted by virtue of the parents being perverted?
Because a) not everyone agrees that it is a perversion, b) all people are perverted (and, more generally, sinners), c) gay parents don't necessarily raise gay kids, or even pro-gay kids, d) raising a pro-gay child does not mean you are a bad parent. Originally Posted by Shephatiah - It must be okay to be gay because my parents are gay.
So you think we should ban gay adoption because the kids might dare disagree with your religious, political, and social opinions? Since when does one's opinion on homosexuality dictate whether you're a good parent?
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
"A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone."
- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
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"Protecting the sanctity of marriage against people who want to get married"
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