To Psuodpod, I have told you, why the one sex couple? What is the point when it is missing a sex, give the child to a male and female couple, it takes a male and female to produce the child and both are represented whatever the sex of the child.
Do me a favour. Ignore producing the child. The child has been produced. We're speaking of raising the child. Two 17 year olds can produce a child. This does not make them capable of raising it.
But they don’t raise the child successfully as one sex is missing. Sure they may raise the child successfully on most of the criteria expressed by JGG.
On what criteria have I not been raised successfully? This should prove and interesting criticism.
Sorry but you just don’t get it, there are two sexes and whilst you don’t think that’s significant most people do, and the fact is there are two sexes, two sexes to create a child who will be of either of the two sexes. Whether you agree this is significant or not it is nonetheless a fact we see as significant on which we base our view.
Why do you think it is significant?
Dysfunctional! I am not saying a one sex couple cant meet the critera laid out by JGG, the point I posed was…. By suggesting a one sex couple you are excluding one of the sexes and depriving the child of both sexes to raise it.
Why does a child have to be raised by two sexes?
Even under the criteria JGG laid out there are matters of the differences of the sexes which one can hardly expect those who think one sex couples are alright to understand.
What matters of the differences of the sexes? This is kind of the core of what we're getting at. Why wouldn't we understand these differences?
if you don’t need the mother why have two sexes?
Because that's how our biology works?
__________________ "WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions."
Alaska Statue 13.52, signed by Governor Sarah Palin
"...my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."
my mother is gay, and from personal experience, it would have been nice to have her around more in my life.
can homosexuals be good parents? i'm sure they can be, but i think it's a lot harder. the more and more she grew into the homosexual lifestyle, the less and less of a mother she became until she completely dumped our family. i don't know whether to attribute it to her being gay or the lifestyle she fell into with her girlfriends. everything about her changed though, slowly too. all i'm sure about is that she changed from this loving caring person into this selfish uncaring person and that it happened at the same time with her "coming out" and getting into that lifestyle. i know that's a horrible thing to say about my mother, but she would tell you the same thing. also, i wouldn't be saying any of this to any of you if i thought i knew you, or would ever meet you. but anyway, there it is. no philosophical argument. for right now, and for a very long time, this has been too personal of an issue to think about clearly on that level. so, i'm not claiming anything, but take it for what you will.
__________________ Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and nature's night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray,--
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
my chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
Homosexuals should be able to adopt, either as a couple or as an individual.
We have too many children in orphanages.
__________________ "She was the perfect woman, in every single way,
She made the sun shine brighter, and all my cares go away.
She was the perfect woman, she was a gourmet chef,
They say that love is blind, well it's also deaf."
I asked some gay parents that I know that have adopted. They will even agree that a female or male figure is important for the child's development, but will point out that children of gay parents are around men and women all the time, such as, gay men with female friends, or female teachers, or female neighbors. They will make these people very much a part of the child's life.
In the same way, a single mother will have her father (their grandfather), male friends, brothers, etc., who will fill that male model need.
However, when children of gay parents are asked if they wish they had one mom and one dad, they don't really know how to answer. They say that they love their two moms or two dads, and that is all that matters. They don't know if it would really be all that different if the had one mom or one dad.
By the same token, many children in heterosexual families have only the mom (father left, father died, father did not want to be with the mother, etc.), so, one could cruelly ask such kids, "Do you wish you had a dad, like normal people?", but the kid IS normal. What they need is a loving parent.
Parents that are one mom and one dad that don't really love their kids, or didn't want them, raise pretty awful people.
Parents that talk about how bad gay people are raise children that harass gay people and think it is ok.
What my partner thinks when he wants to adopt is he wants to take in a kid at risk. For example, he wasn't to foster a child whose parents are unfit due to drug abuse, or especially, heterosexual parents that have kicked a child of 16 or less out of the house because they are gay, leaving the child homeless. That to me is one of the most cruel things any parent could do, and very irresponsible.
So, if I am a bad parent because my partner and I are gay and in a loving, monogamous, and sexual relationship, but the parent that abandons their kid because they are gay and disown them is without blame, then I proudly accept that condemnation, especially from a population that can't raise a child themselves responsibly, and then dare condemn me.
Many people will say things like, "Gay parents will raise gay children." If that were true, I would have had gay parents, and my partner would have had gay parents, but both of us came from straight parents. Does that mean that straight parents raise gay children? No. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters, same environment, but I am gay.
If anything, I would want my child to be who he is. Chances are, my child would be straight, and I would be happy with them for being who they were. Everyone should feel proud to be who they are, rather than try to be someone else to make others happy or conform.
Recently, I was talking to friends about Christianity and God. 2 aren't really strong in any religious belief, and the other is confirming as a Catholic as an adult. The one who is more agnostic said that he didn't understand Christianity because the God that is portrayed is one who is self-centered, selfish, egocentric, and created people for the sole reason to tell him how great he is, but in return, he tells us how bad we are.
And honestly, that is what Christianity portrays. You serve God like a servant all of your life, try and avoid his wrath, sacrifice many things, sometimes, including pleasure or even joy for shame and guilt, and then, hoping that you avoid the ultimate wrath of being sent to eternal damnation with as much forethought and feeling as a 8 year old boy who sits with a stick over a flame with a spider at the end, contemplating whether he will make him drop into the fire, or have mercy, but not really caring emotionally either way.
This, as was said in What the Bleep Do We Know, is not God. That is a blasphemy.
God loves us. We do good, and God loves us. We sin, and God loves us. God just loves us. We get mad at God. God loves us. We want nothing to do with God or deny he even exists, and God loves us, showers us with blessings.
It is not God who demands our praise. It is God who is loving us, who is praising us, encouraging us, helping us. Too often, Christians will treat God as a genie, to grant their every wish. God gladly blesses us, because he wants us to be filled with joy. However, we should be like God, and ask what God wants us to do for him, because he is already doing for us. God showers us with love, the way a parent showers a child with love, care, tenderness, protection, encouragement, with the hope that the child will learn to love the parent in return, and learn how to treat others in love. We don't earn that love. It is given in mercy, in holiness, simply because we exist. Because we don't have to earn it, we can never lose it.
THAT is what a parent should mirror for a child. They should love the child when the child says, "I hate you!!" They should love the child when he does well, and let him know how proud you are. They should love the child when he does wrong, and explain that you still love him/her very much, but you don't love what they did, and show why, so that they won't do it again for it's own sake, as opposed to not doing it because they don't want to get caught by you. As they get older, you should explain why it's important to call if they are late, or the consequences of unprotected sex, etc. A "because I'm your father, and I said so", isn't a good enough reason. I'm surprised how many posters will say, "Well, it says it in the bible! It's God law", but never reason, and in the same breath, will ignore the call to observe the Sabbath, not take the name of God in vain, or how one should not bare false witness, shrugging, and spitting out the lie.
I also think that a male model father will have a really strong impact on how children view God the Father. If your father is abusive, you will see God as scary and punishing. If you Father is sacrificing, you will see God as sacrificing something for you. But I think that the female figure will also show the more emotional side of God, the nurturing and comforting side of God, and the communicative side of God.
But it is the parent, not the sexual orientation, that will bring these things to be.
I'm on the fence about adopting. At this time in my life, we are both really busy. We become the favorite uncle, only having the ability to be part time parents for a day, or babysitters for friends that haven't had a date in 6 months.
At the same time, after seeing things like Slumdug Millionaire, seeing children discarded like old shoes, I want to change at least one child's life by giving them a home, and a sense of what it means to belong in a family, and to be loved.
I'm sad that me doing that would put the child in a place of heterosexual parents' children harrassing them. One girl even said that some boys in her 6th grade class cornered her and urinated on her. But, because heterosexuals think they are normal, they are ok, their kids are ok, it will continue, possibly daring to invoke the bible about how it is ok to hate your neighbor in certain situations.
I often even wonder if I would want to bring a child into a world that is so messed up, where heterosexuals in some countries actually pimp out their kids for adults to have sex with to make money, or as I'm sure is true, like the scene of Slumdog Millionaire, blind or mame the children to get more money as they beg.
On this Halloween, I am reminded of Diary of the Dead, a horror film by George Romero that came out last year. His movies are not just horror, but have a subtext. For example, Night of the Living Dead was a commentary on the disintegration of the Nuclear Family. It this installment of the series, he alludes to the Patriotism post 9/11 that became rather ugly, with Americans fearful and vengeful, and wanting to take it out on someone, regardless of whether they were responsible for the attack. But his stronger theme was one where the person was filming, the news was filming, rather that putting the camera down and helping. They just wanted a good story, a good photo, a good shot. In the final scene, having overcome the zombies, two men have strung the zombies up in trees, and are using them as target practice, laughing as a dead corpse's head is blown off, the body falling to the ground, and then moving on to the next.
A voice over says, "Will the human race remain safe? Or are we even worth saving."
Another shot, and arm is blown off a dead corpse swinging from a tree.
I wonder. Are we worth saving? And would I want to bring a child into that?
I don't have the answer.
__________________ Love is the only miracle there is. -Osho
Matthew 10:16
See, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves.
17 “But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 “But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20 “For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
I support same sex adoption. With so many children in dire need of a good home I don't understand how anyone can justify denying them a home simply to support their "christian ideals and morals".
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Last edited by Supernaut454; 1st November 2009 at 10:20 PM.
Reason: typo
I'm writing a paper on homosexuals adopting. It's a paper more about the discourse on it and not my personal opinion so I would like to hear your views on this subject.
Thank you very much for all that post their views
- The Bible is expressly against homosexuality; therefore homosexuals adopting is only a further degradation into sin from a base that is already sin.
- Need I elaborate about sin built upon a foundation of sin? Zero times anything is zero.
- Might I also point out that the child is innocent....
__________________ Stop looking at Christians. Start looking at Jesus!
Last edited by Shephatiah; 1st November 2009 at 01:39 AM.
Reason: addition
- The Bible is expressly against homosexuality; therefore homosexuals adopting is only a further degradation into sin from a base that is already sin.
Shouldn't children born out of wedlock be taken from their parents? Its just a further degredation into sin from a base that is already sin. What about parents who have been remarried after divorce? Should they be allowed to keep their children? Are you against step-parents too?
- Need I elaborate about sin built upon a foundation of sin? Zero times anything is zero.
And one times one is one. Math is cool. What's your point exactly?
- Might I also point out that the child is innocent....
Not according to original sin doctrine.
__________________ "WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions."
Alaska Statue 13.52, signed by Governor Sarah Palin
"...my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."
- The Bible is expressly against homosexuality; therefore homosexuals adopting is only a further degradation into sin from a base that is already sin.
Let's change that statement a little:
The Bible is expressly against X; therefore people who do X adopting is only a further degradation into sin from a base that is already sin.
You can put anything you believe to be a sin in the place of X. Does it mean that, according to your own statement, no one who sins should be allowed to adopt children?
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my mother is gay, and from personal experience, it would have been nice to have her around more in my life.
can homosexuals be good parents? i'm sure they can be, but i think it's a lot harder. the more and more she grew into the homosexual lifestyle, the less and less of a mother she became until she completely dumped our family. i don't know whether to attribute it to her being gay or the lifestyle she fell into with her girlfriends. everything about her changed though, slowly too. all i'm sure about is that she changed from this loving caring person into this selfish uncaring person and that it happened at the same time with her "coming out" and getting into that lifestyle. i know that's a horrible thing to say about my mother, but she would tell you the same thing. also, i wouldn't be saying any of this to any of you if i thought i knew you, or would ever meet you. but anyway, there it is. no philosophical argument. for right now, and for a very long time, this has been too personal of an issue to think about clearly on that level. so, i'm not claiming anything, but take it for what you will.
Perhaps her coming out late in life meant she relived her teenage years: she was doing what 'normal' people would have done in their youth.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
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