This thread show the danger of not understanding the difference between metaphysics and physics and therefore not being able to see why the two never can be reconciled.
The very thought of using pysics in a religous argument or metaphysics in a scientific argument is higly flawed and to be avoided completly.
That's just an opinion. But thanks for your opinion, even though I don't agree with it. You are not the only person who have a view of physics:
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."...Rom 1:20.
This makes more sense to me.
__________________ And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. And God saw the light was good... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
It takes more faith to believe the universe happened by chance than to believe it happened by God.- Doveaman
That's just an opinion. But thanks for your opinion, even though I don't agree with it. You are not the only person who have a view of physics:
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."...Rom 1:20.
This makes more sense to me.
Its not just an opinion, its by defnition true, metaphysics=beyond physics.
Its not just an opinion, its by defnition true, metaphysics=beyond physics.
Not according to this difinition:
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."...Rom 1:20.
Just because you cannot see the connection doesn't mean the connection is not there. There are others who see it.
__________________ And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. And God saw the light was good... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
It takes more faith to believe the universe happened by chance than to believe it happened by God.- Doveaman
VirOptimus, you forget that creationists are free to make up their own definitions as suits their argument at the time. It's a lose-lose situation I'm afraid.
__________________ We are surrounded by endless forms, most beautiful and most wonderful, and it is noaccident, but the direct consequence of evolution by non-random natural selection - the only game in town, the greatest show on Earth. ~R.D.
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."...Rom 1:20.
Just because you cannot see the connection doesn't mean the connection is not there. There are others who see it.
No, you are wrong and whats more, that what you quoted doesnt refute what I wrote.
No, you are wrong and whats more, that what you quoted doesnt refute what I wrote.
Originally Posted by LifeToTheFullest!
VirOptimus, you forget that creationists are free to make up their own definitions as suits their argument at the time. It's a lose-lose situation I'm afraid.
What is Metaphysics?:
In Western philosophy, metaphysics has become the study of the fundamental nature of all reality — what is it, why is it, and how are we can understand it. Some treat metaphysics as the study of “higher” reality or the “invisible” nature behind everything, but that isn’t true. It is, instead, the study of all of reality, visible and invisible; and what constitutes reality, natural and supernatural. Because most of the debates between atheists and theists involve disagreements over the nature of reality and the existence of anything supernatural, the debates are often disagreements over metaphysics. Source
__________________ And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. And God saw the light was good... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
It takes more faith to believe the universe happened by chance than to believe it happened by God.- Doveaman
In Western philosophy, metaphysics has become the study of the fundamental nature of all reality — what is it, why is it, and how are we can understand it. Some treat metaphysics as the study of “higher” reality or the “invisible” nature behind everything, but that isn’t true. It is, instead, the study of all of reality, visible and invisible; and what constitutes reality, natural and supernatural. Because most of the debates between atheists and theists involve disagreements over the nature of reality and the existence of anything supernatural, the debates are often disagreements over metaphysics.
Yes, and its very appearant that you dont understand that you cannot mix this with physics. Its different fields and different schools of thought.
It is valid because it works. Big Bang has passed the peer-reviewed test but it relies upon a whole bunch of hypothetical dark patches that no one can empirically verify.
You don't seem to understand what peer-review actually entails...
Originally Posted by Doveaman
There are many credible scientists who do not waste their valuable time with peer-review big bangers.
Are you KIDDING?! Peer-review is an integral part of modern science. You will not find a single qualified physicist engaged in research who doesn't support peer-review.
Originally Posted by Doveaman
You do know that Jesus and his followers were a fringe group? And they were right.
Yes, that's religion. Not science. Nice red herring.
Originally Posted by Doveaman
It is clear you didn’t read the article. If you did you would have seen it’s not just my opinion.
On the basis of physics.
Your right, I didn't bother reading it. Because its a .org. Its worthless. Find the primary literature. Aka, peer-reviewed research studies. At the very least, use a .edu domain....
And look, now that I've clicked the link, its an open letter. Don't you get it?! I could make up a name and an institute and sign myself! These stupid "letters" aren't reliable. For every legitimate physicist who actually signs that, there are 100 who disagree, and can cite thousands of studies supporting their position.
__________________ "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived." --Anomander Rake.
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." --Plato
"I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and He heard me out of His holy hill." Psalm 3:4
"The virtuous man is never a novice in worldly things." Marcus Valerius Martialis
Last edited by laconicstudent; 7th November 2009 at 06:50 PM.
Scripture teaches us Who did it. Nature teaches us how He did it.
Then why do you reject so much of nature for a particular 'how" that you want God to have used?
__________________ "If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890
For every legitimate physicist who actually signs that, there are 100 who disagree, and can cite thousands of studies supporting their position. 
Linear Mode
