Did it occur to anyone that this olive tree was never under water in the first place?
Remember Adam being placed in the Garden of Eden?
God planted that garden, Himself --- and hypergrew it w/i a 24-hour timespan.
Noah, if you recall, disembarked, planted a vineyard, and got drunk.
This means that this vineyard had to have grown at a fantastically quick pace, in order for Noah to still be in enough shock from the Flood to have still wanted to inebriate himself.
I see questions like this, along with, "Where did Cain get his wife?"; and you guys have to realize that things were different back then.
You can't invoke uniformitarian paradigms to explain this stuff.
Gestation periods, plant growth, etc. could all have been much shorter back then.
Did it occur to anyone that this olive tree was never under water in the first place?
Remember Adam being placed in the Garden of Eden?
God planted that garden, Himself --- and hypergrew it w/i a 24-hour timespan.
Noah, if you recall, disembarked, planted a vineyard, and got drunk.
This means that this vineyard had to have grown at a fantastically quick pace, in order for Noah to still be in enough shock from the Flood to have still wanted to inebriate himself.
I see questions like this, along with, "Where did Cain get his wife?"; and you guys have to realize that things were different back then.
You can't invoke uniformitarian paradigms to explain this stuff.
Gestation periods, plant growth, etc. could all have been much shorter back then.
Not the alternate state nonsense...
This isn't parsimonious.
__________________ "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived." --Anomander Rake.
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." --Plato
"I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and He heard me out of His holy hill." Psalm 3:4
"The virtuous man is never a novice in worldly things." Marcus Valerius Martialis
We're living in the 'alternate state nonsense' now; but God is going to return it to its [near] former condition.
With the caveat that I'm not entirely sure your seriously advocating this:
You have no proof that this alternate state ever existed other then your need for it to be true so the universe will fit into the box you've constructed for it.
__________________ "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived." --Anomander Rake.
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." --Plato
"I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and He heard me out of His holy hill." Psalm 3:4
"The virtuous man is never a novice in worldly things." Marcus Valerius Martialis
With the caveat that I'm not entirely sure your seriously advocating this:
You have no proof that this alternate state ever existed other then your need for it to be true so the universe will fit into the box you've constructed for it.
Given the fact that you guys aren't doing a very good job explaining where this tree came from, I'd say I'm doing a much better job than you are.
I find it interesting that you guys have no problem with God creating a million times more trees than that in Genesis 1 --- just by speaking --- but, all of a sudden, He seems to be having difficulty hypergrowing a simple olive tree.
Watch this feat, laconicstudent:
Originally Posted by Jonah 4:6
And the LORD God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
Given the fact that you guys aren't doing a very good job explaining where this tree came from, I'd say I'm doing a much better job than you are.
Oh. It obviously came from an area that wasn't flooded. The Flood wasn't global.
Originally Posted by AV1611VET
I find it interesting that you guys have no problem with God creating a million times more trees than that in Genesis 1 --- just by speaking --- but, all of a sudden, He seems to be having difficulty hypergrowing a simple olive tree.
Well, I don't believe he did either of those things. I think he could if he wanted, but I don't think God is nearly that ham-fisted.
Originally Posted by AV1611VET
Watch this feat, laconicstudent:
Yes? I'm waiting.
__________________ "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived." --Anomander Rake.
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." --Plato
"I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and He heard me out of His holy hill." Psalm 3:4
"The virtuous man is never a novice in worldly things." Marcus Valerius Martialis
"Jonah went out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered." (Jonah 4:5-7)
"Jonah went out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered." (Jonah 4:5-7)
There vine no vine, all in day and a night.
Yeah... that was a miracle... There's no reason to assume it happened more then that once, or all the time when there's a perfectly plausible alternate explanation that doesn't violate parsimony.
In this case, it specifically states what happened, so I accept it on faith. Although you still have to wonder if it was some species of bamboo (some of which grow very very very fast) or there is some other naturalistic explanation. But yes, in that particular instance, I agree that God made the vine grow supernaturally fast through direct intervention.
__________________ "There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived." --Anomander Rake.
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." --Plato
"I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and He heard me out of His holy hill." Psalm 3:4
"The virtuous man is never a novice in worldly things." Marcus Valerius Martialis
"Jonah went out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered." (Jonah 4:5-7)
There vine no vine, all in day and a night.
The point of the story was that God told Jonah to preach to Nineveh and Jonah didn't want to because the Assyrians were a cruel and vicious people. When Jonah, all unwilling, but compelled, succeeded in converting them he was very annoyed. When his shade was taken away, he protested. That is when God pointed out to him that destroying Nineveh would destroy many innocent children and "cattle" (slaves).
That was the point of the story, not the fish, and not the gourd.
By the way, the real Nineveh did not repent and was destroyed.
__________________ "A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition." - Jose Bergamin
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"The fact that the author thinks slowly is not serious, but the fact that he publishes faster than he thinks is inexcusable." -- Wolfgang Pauli
"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" -- Micah 6:8
"It is because we believe absurdities that we are able to commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
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"Je ne suis pas marxiste." -- Karl Marx
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."-- Mark Twain
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein
"I find it interesting that you guys have no problem with God creating a million times more trees than that in Genesis 1 --- just by speaking --- but, all of a sudden, He seems to be having difficulty hypergrowing a simple olive tree."
i have no trouble with magical stories giving magical claims.
i'd have a problem if you'd treat is as history though.
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