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25th October 2009, 11:22 AM
|  | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Angels Team
       
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,932) | | Originally Posted by Cabal  Great, so God is proven.
So what becomes of faith and choice now?
He addressed the above. Did you read all of his posts?
__________________ "Be still and know that I am God." ~Psalm 46:10
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." ~Exodus 14:14
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"If the pace and the push, the noise and the crowds are getting to you, it's time to stop the nonsense and find a place of solace to refresh your spirit." ~Charles Swindoll "Pray often, for prayer is a shield to the soul,
a sacrifice to God, and a scourge for Satan."
~John Bunyan "Humility does not mean you think less of yourself. It means you think of yourself less. " ~Ken Blanchard
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25th October 2009, 11:32 AM
| | Legend
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Reps: 209,698,057,446,833,376 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by brinny He addressed the above. Did you read all of his posts?
Doesn't matter - once it becomes illogical to NOT believe in God, it becomes more about compulsion than choice.
If the question of God's existence is reduced to a logical statement like 2+2=4 then then people who accept science theories would end up accepting God because they had to, not because they chose to, out of love and a feeling of conviction, the way conversion happens typically.
This kind of logic is straight out of the textbook of those who insist upon calling acceptance of scientific theories "faith". For the record - it isn't. |
25th October 2009, 11:58 AM
| | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Angels Team
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,932) | | Originally Posted by Cabal Doesn't matter - once it becomes illogical to NOT believe in God, it becomes more about compulsion than choice.
If the question of God's existence is reduced to a logical statement like 2+2=4 then then people who accept science theories would end up accepting God because they had to, not because they chose to, out of love and a feeling of conviction, the way conversion happens typically.
This kind of logic is straight out of the textbook of those who insist upon calling acceptance of scientific theories "faith". For the record - it isn't.
Did you read all of his posts?
__________________ "Be still and know that I am God." ~Psalm 46:10
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." ~Exodus 14:14
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"If the pace and the push, the noise and the crowds are getting to you, it's time to stop the nonsense and find a place of solace to refresh your spirit." ~Charles Swindoll "Pray often, for prayer is a shield to the soul,
a sacrifice to God, and a scourge for Satan."
~John Bunyan "Humility does not mean you think less of yourself. It means you think of yourself less. " ~Ken Blanchard
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25th October 2009, 11:59 AM
| | Legend
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| | Join Date: 22nd July 2007 Location: London
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Reps: 209,698,057,446,833,376 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by brinny Did you read all of his posts?
Did you?
Yes, I did. And my statements remain unchanged. |
25th October 2009, 11:59 AM
| | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Angels Team
| | Join Date: 23rd March 2004
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,932) | | Originally Posted by Cabal Doesn't matter - once it becomes illogical to NOT believe in God, it becomes more about compulsion than choice.
If the question of God's existence is reduced to a logical statement like 2+2=4 then then people who accept science theories would end up accepting God because they had to, not because they chose to, out of love and a feeling of conviction, the way conversion happens typically.
This kind of logic is straight out of the textbook of those who insist upon calling acceptance of scientific theories "faith". For the record - it isn't.
Not so. God states in His Word, there will be those, who after seeing blazing truth that GOd exists, will raise their fists, cursing God.
__________________ "Be still and know that I am God." ~Psalm 46:10
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." ~Exodus 14:14
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"If the pace and the push, the noise and the crowds are getting to you, it's time to stop the nonsense and find a place of solace to refresh your spirit." ~Charles Swindoll "Pray often, for prayer is a shield to the soul,
a sacrifice to God, and a scourge for Satan."
~John Bunyan "Humility does not mean you think less of yourself. It means you think of yourself less. " ~Ken Blanchard
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25th October 2009, 12:02 PM
| | Legend
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| | Join Date: 22nd July 2007 Location: London
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Reps: 209,698,057,446,833,376 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by brinny Not so. God states in His Word, there will be those, who after seeing blazing truth that GOd exists, will raise their fists, cursing God.
But not all of those who don't accept God don't accept him purely because they don't want to.
As long as such a subset of people that I described exists, the notion of proving God will destroy the notion of faith and choosing to believe for them, which I don't think He would allow. |
25th October 2009, 12:09 PM
| | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Angels Team
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,932) | | Originally Posted by Cabal But not all of those who don't accept God don't accept him purely because they don't want to.
As long as such a subset of people that I described exists, the notion of proving God will destroy the notion of faith and choosing to believe for them, which I don't think He would allow.
Not all, but some, yes.
Are you claiming to know how God thinks?
__________________ "Be still and know that I am God." ~Psalm 46:10
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." ~Exodus 14:14
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"If the pace and the push, the noise and the crowds are getting to you, it's time to stop the nonsense and find a place of solace to refresh your spirit." ~Charles Swindoll "Pray often, for prayer is a shield to the soul,
a sacrifice to God, and a scourge for Satan."
~John Bunyan "Humility does not mean you think less of yourself. It means you think of yourself less. " ~Ken Blanchard
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25th October 2009, 12:46 PM
|  | PeteAce - In memory of WinAce
35 
| | Join Date: 30th June 2002
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Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,694) | | Originally Posted by brinny Not all, but some, yes.
Are you claiming to know how God thinks?
I sort of agree with Cabel on this (even as a non-believer) because of this:
1) If I assume God wants me to believe in Him, and 2) God is omniscient and omnipotent, therefore God would know exactly what evidence it would take to convince me. Thus God could simply present that evidence (whatever it is). However this would completely destroy the very notion of faith and for that matter, free will.
Therefore, the only logical outcome is that either God doesn't exist, is not omniscient and/or omnipotent, or God doesn't actively desire people's belief in a way in which making it compulsory is necessary. Hence proving God's existence (specifically the Judeo-Christian God) is an exercise in futility.
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution |
25th October 2009, 12:56 PM
| | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Angels Team
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,932) | | Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff I sort of agree with Cabel on this (even as a non-believer) because of this:
1) If I assume God wants me to believe in Him, and 2) God is omniscient and omnipotent, therefore God would know exactly what evidence it would take to convince me. Thus God could simply present that evidence (whatever it is). However this would completely destroy the very notion of faith and for that matter, free will.
Therefore, the only logical outcome is that either God doesn't exist, is not omniscient and/or omnipotent, or God doesn't actively desire people's belief in a way in which making it compulsory is necessary. Hence proving God's existence (specifically the Judeo-Christian God) is an exercise in futility.
Faith is a "gift". It comes from God. It is given to those that genuinely seek God from their hearts. Evidence that God exists is a given. It will be blazingly clear at His appointed time. In spite of it, there are those who will raise their fists in God's face and curse Him.
In the meantime, evidence will present itself, to the chagrin of many, who will scramble to slam it away.
__________________ "Be still and know that I am God." ~Psalm 46:10
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." ~Exodus 14:14
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"If the pace and the push, the noise and the crowds are getting to you, it's time to stop the nonsense and find a place of solace to refresh your spirit." ~Charles Swindoll "Pray often, for prayer is a shield to the soul,
a sacrifice to God, and a scourge for Satan."
~John Bunyan "Humility does not mean you think less of yourself. It means you think of yourself less. " ~Ken Blanchard
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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25th October 2009, 01:01 PM
| | PeteAce - In memory of WinAce
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| | Join Date: 30th June 2002
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Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,694) | | Originally Posted by brinny Faith is a "gift". It comes from God. It is given to those that genuinely seek God from their hearts.
This is circular. You might as well just say "you'll believe in God when you believe in God". Evidence that God exists is a given.
Except it's not. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. It will be blazingly clear at His appointed time. In spite of it, there are those who will raise their fists in God's face and curse Him.
This is just an appeal to future events. You have no idea what is going to happen any more than I do. In the meantime, evidence will present itself, to the chagrin of many, who will scramble to slam it away.
Chagrin? Hardly. More like amusement.
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution | | |
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