Or, before a vowel, ουτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.
Correct -- as stated previously, its an adverb. It tells in what fashion God loved the word.
Correct -- as stated previously, its an adverb. It tells in what fashion God loved the word.
I will assume that "word" is a typo. And while outos is an adverb it does not change anything about the object of God's agape, which is the "world" NOT the "elect." As the disciples of "Saint" Calvin would have us think.
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tansy . .
God doesn't love some people that do not follow his commandments.
1 John 4:8:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
The English word love in the original Greek text is Agape (ag-ah'-pay). It does not mean to have affection for.
Same word as in 2 John 6 "this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments"
God = Love.
Love = obeying the commandments.
Rev. 3:19
'Those whom I love (Phileo), I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
If God, as the word is used in the original Greek text (Theos), means magistrate, then He only has affection (phileo) to those that obey His Laws.
The point of this thread is that English speaking people in the 21st century really do not understand the NT concept of love.
Apparently neither do you understand the Biblical concept of Agape. From the online Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich lexicon of New Testament Greek
αγάπη , h", hJ — I. love (an unquestioned example fr. a pagan source was lacking for a long time [ s. critical art. by EPeterson, BZ 20, ’32, 378-82]. Now we have an inscr. that is surely pagan [ Suppl. Epigr. Gr. VIII ’37, 11, 6—III AD ], in the light of which such exx. as PBerl. 9869= Berl. Klassikertexte II ’05 p. 55 [II BC ]; Philod. , parr. col. 13a, 3 Oliv.; POxy. 1380, 28; 109 [II AD ] and others fr. paganism [ s. Ltzm. , exc. after 1 Cor 13 ; L-S-J lex. ; ACeresa-Gastaldo, jAgavph nei documenti anteriori al NT: Aegyptus 31, ’51, 269-306 has a new pap. and a new inscr. ex. fr. III AD secular sources; in Rivista di Filologia 31, ’53, 347-56 the same author shows it restored in an inscr. of 27 BC, also in various later texts] take on new mng. In Jewish sources: LXX , esp. SSol, also PsSol 18:3; Ep. Arist. 229; Philo , Deus Imm. 69; Test. Gad 4:7; 5:2, Benj. 8:2; Sib. Or. 2, 65. Cf. ACarr, ET 10, ’99, 321-30).
1. of human love— a. without indication of the pers. who is the object of the love ( cf. Eccl 9:1 , 6 ; Sir 48:11 v.l .): aj. as subj. hJ aj. oijkodomei` 1 Cor 8:1 .—13:4, 8 (on 1 Cor 13 cf. AHarnack, SAB ’11, 132-63, esp. 152 f ; ELehmann and AFridrichsen, 1 Cor 13 e. christl.-stoische Diatribe: StKr Sonderheft ’22, 55-95 [ Maximus Tyr. 20, 2 praise of e[rw", what it is not and what it is]; EHoffmann, Pauli Hymnus auf d. Liebe: Dtsche Vierteljahrsschrift für Literaturwiss. u. Geistesgesch. 4, ’26, 58-73; NWLund, JBL 50, ’31, 266-76; GRudberg, Hellas och Nya Testamentet ’34, 149 f ; HRiesenfeld, Con. Neot. 5, ’41, 1-32, Nuntius 6, ’52, 47 f ); Phil 1:9 . hJ aj. kako;n oujk ejrgavzetai Ro 13:10 ; plhvrwma novmou hJ aj. ibid. ; yughvsetai hJ aj. t. pollw`n Mt 24:12 ; hJ aj. ajnupovkrito" let love be genuine Ro 12:9 , cf. 2 Cor 6:6 . As predicate 1 Ti 1:5 ; 1J 4:16 b. As obj. ajgavphn e[cein 1 Cor 13:1-3 ; Phil 2:2 ; diwvkein 1 Cor 14:1 ; 1 Ti 6:11 ; 2 Ti 2:22 ; ejnduvsasqai th;n aj. Col 3:14 .—2 Pt 1:7 ; Col 1:8 . In gen. case oJ kovpo" th`" aj. 1 Th 1:3 ; to; t. uJmetevra" aj. gnhvsion the genuineness of your love 2 Cor 8:8 . e[ndeixi" th`" aj. vs.
24 .—Hb 10:24 ; Phil 2:1 ; 1 Pt 5:14 ; 1 Cl 49:2.—In prep. phrases ejx ajgavph" out of love Phil 1:16 ; paravklhsi" ejpi; th`/ aj. sou comfort from your love Phlm 7 ; peripatei`n kata; aj., ejn aj. Ro 14:15 ; Eph 5:2 ; ejn aj. e[rcesqai ( opp. ejn rJavbdw/ ) 1 Cor 4:21 ; ajlhqeuvein ejn aj. Eph 4:15 . Other verbal combinations w. ejn aj. , 1 Cor 16:14 ; Eph 3:17 ; 4:2 ; Col 2:2 ; 1 Th 5:13 ; cf. Eph 4:16 . dia; th`" aj. douleuvete ajllhvloi" Gal 5:13 . pivsti" diÆ ajgavph" ejnergoumevnh 5: 6. dia; th;n aj. parakalw` for love’s sake I appeal Phlm 9 . meta; ajgavph" politeuvesqai live in love 1 Cl 51:2.— W . pivsti" 1 Th 3:6 ; 5:8 ; 1 Ti 1:14 ; 2 Ti 1:13 ; Phlm 5 ; B 11:8; IEph 1:1; 9:1; 14:1 al. W. pivsti" and other concepts on the same plane Eph 6:23 ; 1 Ti 2:15 ; 4:12 ; 6:11 ; 2 Ti 2:22 ; 3:10 ; Tit 2:2 ; Rv 2:19 ; Hm 8:9; cf. v 3, 8, 2-5. The triad pivsti", ejlpiv", ajgavph 1 Cor 13:13 ; s. also Col 1:4 f ; 1 Th 1:3 ; 5:8 ; B 1:4 ( cf. Porphyr ., Ad Marcellam 24 tevssara stoicei`a mavlista kekratuvnqw peri; qeou`, pivsti", ajlhvqeia, e[rw", ejlpiv" and s. Rtzst., Hist. Mon. ’16, 242 ff , NGG ’16, 367 ff ; ’17, 130 ff , Hist. Zeitschr. 116, ’16, 189 ff ; AHarnack, PJ 164, ’16, 5 ff =Aus d. Friedens-u. Kriegsarbeit ’16, 1 ff ; PCorssen, Sokrates 7, ’19, 18 ff ; Annemarie Brieger, D. urchr. Trias Gl., Lbe, Hoff., Heidelb. Diss. ’25; WTheiler, D. Vorbereitung d. Neuplatonismus ’30, 148 f ). W. duvnami" and swfronismov" 2 Ti 1:7 . Cf. B 1:6.—Attributes of love: ajnupovkrito" Ro 12:9 ; 2 Cor 6:6 . gnhsiva 1 Cl 62:2. filovqeo" and filavnqrwpo" Agr 7. suvmfwno" IEph 4:1 a[okno" IPol 7:2. ejktenhv" 1 Pt 4:8 . It is a fruit of the Spirit karpo;" tou` pneuvmato" Gal 5:22 , and takes first rank among the fruits. aj. tou` pneuvmato" Ro 15:30 ; cf. Col 1:8 . In the sense alms, charity ISm 6:2 ( cf. aj. lambavnein ‘receive alms’ PGenève 14, 7).— ajspavzetai uJma`" hJ ajgavph tw`n ajdelfw`n the beloved brothers greet you, i.e ., the church greets you IPhld 11:2; ISm 12:1, cf. ITr 13:1; IRo 9:3. In these passages the object of the love is often made plain by the context; in others it is
b. expressly mentioned— a. impers. aj. th`" ajlhqeiva" 2 Th 2:10 ; aj. th`" patrivdo" 1 Cl 55:5. b. human beings aj. ei[" tina love for someone eij" pavnta" tou;" aJgivou" Eph 1:15 ; Col 1:4 . eij" ajllhvlou" kai; eij" pavnta" 1 Th 3:12 ; 2 Th 1:3 ; cf. 2 Cor 2:4 , 8 ; 1 Pt 4:8 . ejn ajllhvloi" J 13:35 . ejx hJmw`n ejn uJmi`n 2 Cor 8:7 ; hJ aj. mou meta; uJmw`n 1 Cor 16:24 . g. God or Christ aj. tou` qeou` love toward God (but in many cases the gen. may be subjective) Lk 11:42 ; J 5:42 ; 2 Th 3:5 ; 1J 2:5 , 15 ; 3:17 ; 4:12 ; 5:3 ; 2 Cor 7:1 v.l. (for fovbo"); aj. eij" qeo;n kai; Cristo;n kai; eij" to;n plhsivon Pol 3:3; aj. eij" to; o[noma qeou` Hb 6:10 .
2. of the love of God and Christ— a. to men. Of God ( cf. Wsd 3:9 ): ejn hJmi`n 1J 4:9 , 16 . eij" hJma`" Ro 5:8 , cf. vs. 5. ajgavphn didovnai bestow love 1J 3:1 ; ejn aj. proorivsa" hJma`" eij" uiJoqesivan Eph 1:4 f ; cf. 2: 4.—2 Cor 13:13 ; Jd 2 . God is the source of love 1J 4:7 , the qeo;" th`" aj. 2 Cor 13:11 and therefore God is love 1J 4:8 , 16 . Christians, embraced by his love, are tevkna ajgavph" B 9:7; 21:9.—Of Jesus’ love J 15:9 , 10 a, 13 ( cf. MDibelius, Joh 15:13 : Deissmann- Festschr. ’27, 168-86); Ro 8:35 ; 2 Cor 5:14 ; cf. Eph 3:19 . Perh. the ajlhqh;" ajgavph of Pol 1:1 is a designation of Jesus.
b. of the relation betw. God and Christ J 15:10 b; 17:26 (on the constr. cf. Pel.-Leg. 12, 21 oJ plou`to" o{n me ejplouvtisen oJ satana`"). tou` uiJou` th`" aj. aujtou` of the son of his love, i.e ., of his beloved son Col 1:13 ( s. PsSol 13:9 uiJo;" ajgaphvsew" ).—WLütgert, D. L. im NT 1905; BBWarfield, PTR 16, ’18, 1-45; 153-203; JMoffatt, Love in the NT ’29; HPreisker, StKr 95, ’24, 272-94, D. urchr. Botschaft v. der L. Gottes ’30; EStauffer, TW I 20-55; RSchütz, D. Vorgeschichte der joh. Formel oJ qeo;" ajg. ejstivn Kiel Diss. ’17; CRBowen, Love in the Fourth Gosp.: Journ. of Rel. 13, ’33, 39-49; GEichholz, Glaube u. L. im 1 J: Ev. Theol. ’37, 411-37. On e[rw" and aj. s. Harnack, SAB ’18, 81-94; ANygren, Eros u. Agape I ’30, II ’37 (Eng. transl. Agape and Eros, AGHebert and PSWatson ’32, ’39; on this JATRobinson, Theology 48, ’45, 98-104); LGrünhut, Eros u. Ag. ’31. Cf. CCTarelli, jAgavph , JTS n.s. 1, ’50, 64-7; EKLee, Love and Righteousness: ET 62, ’50 f , 28-31;
?? ??????? , Verbum Domini 28, ’50, 110-19; 122-40; 193-213; 257-70; 321-40; TOhm, D. Liebe zu Gott in d. nichtchristl. Religionen, ’50; WHarrelson, The Idea of Agape, Journ. of Rel. 31, ’51, 169-82; VWarnach, Agape: Die Liebe als Grundmotiv der ntl. Theol. 1951; JESteinmueller, jEra`n, Filei`n, jAgapa`n in Extrabiblical and Bibl. Sources: Studia Anselmiana 27 f , ’51, 404-23.—Full bibliog. in HRiesenfeld, Étude bibliographique sur la notion biblique d’ ajgavph, surtout dans 1 Cor 13: Con. Neot. 5, ’41, 1-32, Nuntius 6, ’52, 47 f ; CSpicq, Agapè, 3 vols., ’58/’59; Eng. transl. by McNamara and Richter, 3 vols., ’63/’66 without footnotes. [ . . . ]
There are many, many, more references in the N.T. than your few out-of-context proof texts.
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Last edited by Der Alter; 4th November 2009 at 12:43 PM.
just because his grace does not send everyone to Heaven does not mean he didn't try
Don't you find that this conclusion makes God sound like just another mortal human being, though? "At least He tried". If we make Him into our own (human) image, it's an easy conclusion to come to.
in his attempt it is not God's fault but humanities as we failed on our part
Are you saying that the active ingredient in our salvation is us? And, if so, why did Christ have to sacrifice Himself if all we had to do all along was "our part"?
if God were to send everyone to heaven then there would be no temptation, no fall, no Glory, no repentance and humanity would have been fine if it was never created
How do you draw this conclusion? Personally, I think that the redemption of all is a glorious finale for a race whose earthly history consists of temptation, fall, repentance, etc.
we would be androids
To conclude that we would be androids is actually a compliment compared to how Scripture sees us. In Scripture, we aren't even androids -- we're mere clay. Clay doesn't have half the bells and whistles that robots do.
God loves all, its those who dont accept it that go to Hell
he loves all but needs to be just
I'm sorry, but God isn't asking our permission on this one. And His justice comes from a foundation of love, because love isn't just one of His attributes, love is what He is. So naturally all His other attributes would manifest in accordance with that foundation.
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I've met people who don't think God loves humankind, you seem to be another. So, we aren't getting off on the right foot now, are we, Eph4:26?
As to your indulgence into grace, God needed, for His own 'peace of mind', to send a Redeemer to make things right - might you recall, His scientific venture led Him to say, "I wish I had not created man."
If that Redeemer is but a show to you, if you only see an innocent man dying without a just cause, picking and choosing His friends like some 'random' computer function, you've missed the meaning of "all".
And should you ever decide to post a lie as a topic header and then speak of the 'Elect', I mind you that Christ used 'Elect' to show His love for "all".
...really, it is that simple. It's all about God's Love for all and Christ's saving grace for those who have accepted His Love. It's very simple, indeed.
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