Girlfriend issues

Hello all, Im a newbie to this forum (first post) and it looks great from what I have seen! But I have been having issues recently with my girlfriend and our differnet belief's/views. First I would like to say that I love her with all of my heart and know that she is a great person. She doesnt admit to being a Christian, but she does like to go to church and is very open minded of my views. With that said, we have been discussing our beliefs recently and last night, it lead to a very "casual" arguement. She has several gay friends and is very pro-gay. She has been questioning me and my beliefs and all I have been trying to answer is that I dont believe in it, but I have nothing against it. So she kept questioning me and so I reffered to scripture. Well, this only made things harder as I reffered to; Leviticus 18v22 and another one, which I can't remember right now, that punishes homosexuality with death! And that one was a real kicker...it upset her to say the least. I really didnt know what else to say, so I quickly changed the subject but there was an unspoken tension between us the rest of the night. My question is; is it tolerable and righteous to love someone like this that I do? I could write pages of our disscussions of late, but I will try to keep this as short as I can. I know this will be brought up again soon and would like to hear any opionions/advice on what to do or say the next time. Thanks for reading.

Leviticus was wrapped up by the New Convenant of Jesus. That does not necessarily excuse homosexuality being sinful, however, as there are places in the New Testament that also refer to homosexual behavior as being sinful (although people could debate that all day long too...). However, there is no more executing of people because they are gay or otherwise different.

There is a very fine line between thinking something is a sin, and judging the perpetrators of those sins. The "love the sinner, hate the sin" mentality does not work.

As for your actual question:
Could you expand? The context is very ambiguous.

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Causing confusion one avatar at a time.

Thank you for the reply. As to expand, we have been having disscusion lately of our views. Im not sure it's healthy for our relationship or not... But these are disscusions are about pre-marital sex, homosexualtiy beliefs, forgiveness and such. Like I said, she is very open minded as I also try to be. I often give my views, then back them up with srcipture some times. What Im trying to get down to is, how and what to say to get to her that I dont come across as judgemental and how can I accept her beliefs when I dont believe in them myslef? Do I just live with it? Should I try to chnge her beliefs? Sorry for bad English and thanks for reading!

edit; why do you say "love the sinner, hate the sin" does not work? Jesus loved and accepted many sinners

Yes, it's fine to love someone who's ultimately mistaken when you compare their ideas with Scripture. God does it all the time . She will probably find the same inconsistencies with you someday, btw. Often God brings together people with differing views so that the errors of both may be revealed. Concentrate on being the fastest repenter when she does find you out. That makes you a better model of repentance, and thus redemption.

I probably would've picked Romans 1:18-eoc as the decline into homosexuality. I think it's more reflective of the issues. Mosaic Law even permitted the capital punishment of one's progeny for rebelliousness. God's holding up quite a pure light in His Law. No one attained it.
That's a good idea, but there should also be a more "system" level of understanding these things. It's hard to develop from Sunday School though. And there are plenty of systems that hold together.

The reason why I say this is important, otherwise the rules become a "taboo" system, where you can't talk about such things because they're not understood. It can get to that with a non-Christian. The question is, how do you get involved in discussing how such things could be? With a non-Christian that could get you badly entangled, because the question has to deal with what Scripture means, and thus why it says what it says.

Scripture quotes are a great point to start. But diving into what God meant by what He said -- exegeting a passage of Scripture, figuring out what the writer is saying to whom, and why -- those can be critically important points in helping someone say "I don't think so" even when Scripture seems to say so.

Finally, that discussion can actually end when someone is devoted to what God means by what He says.
The easiest -- and the hardest to remember -- way to do this is to show compassion for the point. If you see the consistency of a point, say so. It's not weakness (except in debate) to recognize something in a point.

Y'can't leave out both pieces. But emphasize that you understand from a human point of view this may seem right; that even in spiritually people are human and bearing God's protection and image, no matter in what other ways we consider them.

Another point to make is that there are gray areas in Christianity. They don't extend up into sexual immorality, but they do exist.

__________________
"... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin

To us, O LORD, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you.

Originally Posted by Bucs1

Hello all, Im a newbie to this forum (first post) and it looks great from what I have seen! But I have been having issues recently with my girlfriend and our differnet belief's/views. First I would like to say that I love her with all of my heart and know that she is a great person. She doesnt admit to being a Christian, but she does like to go to church and is very open minded of my views. With that said, we have been discussing our beliefs recently and last night, it lead to a very "casual" arguement. She has several gay friends and is very pro-gay. She has been questioning me and my beliefs and all I have been trying to answer is that I dont believe in it, but I have nothing against it. So she kept questioning me and so I reffered to scripture. Well, this only made things harder as I reffered to; Leviticus 18v22 and another one, which I can't remember right now, that punishes homosexuality with death! And that one was a real kicker...it upset her to say the least. I really didnt know what else to say, so I quickly changed the subject but there was an unspoken tension between us the rest of the night. My question is; is it tolerable and righteous to love someone like this that I do? I could write pages of our disscussions of late, but I will try to keep this as short as I can. I know this will be brought up again soon and would like to hear any opionions/advice on what to do or say the next time. Thanks for reading.

Aside that you should have probably used Romans 1:26-27 and not a passage that's been fulfilled (and actually talks about only one sex act, not an orientation), this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship to me. She likely isn't a Christian and might be going to be with you, and for people who are not very firm in their faith, this can drag down your faith. The passage that refers to people not being unequally yoked comes to mind.

__________________

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)

"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille

remember that if you are a Christian and she is not, then you should not be with her... Christians are not to be unequally yoked with non-believers... if you go on to get married with these very serious theological differences between you (eg you look at lifew with a Christian worldview and she doesn't), they will just get worse...

2 Corinthians 6:14 - 18 (ESV) 14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial?£ Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, 18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”
blessings,
ken

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I am in a similar boat as you..my boyfriend is also very liberal in his beliefs..proabortion..progays pro well pretty much everything..he just feels that people should be able to do what they want to do and it be just that. He loves God though but after being a cop and being in iraq his whole view on life, God and freedom has changed dramtically...that he doesn believe in miracles etc...but it doesnt effect our relationship..it saddens me sometimes but i just pray that God will open his heart to understand...but the good thing is though he does love and respect me for my beliefs.

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But what does "unequally yoked" actually mean? I can see how it could apply to marriage, but it could also apply in other contexts such as business dealings or basic friendship. I think it's just too vague a phrase to use it as an outright restriction the way it is.

And what if two non-believers are married and one becomes a Christian? Would that also be a case of being "unequally yoked"? Or in order to prevent the unequal yoking, should they not have converted in the first place?

For a Christian and a non-believer to be in a relationship is possible, however there are going to be issues that arise because of the different beliefs. However, while dealing with these issues may be difficult, they're not necessarily insurmountable.

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It was there right before our eyes, we were blind not to realise
In the rush to be globalised we signed away our freedom
We forgot how to criticise, we were scared to be demonised
As the truth was neutralised we lost the art of reason

Originally Posted by Citanul

But what does "unequally yoked" actually mean? I can see how it could apply to marriage, but it could also apply in other contexts such as business dealings or basic friendship. I think it's just too vague a phrase to use it as an outright restriction the way it is.

Really? "The Bible's too vague, let's ignore it." Is that your argument? Being unequally yoked typically refers to not being in any kind of serious relationship- a deep friendship, dating, or others like those- with an unbeliever. It's very clear. Don't trust the wisdom of those who are not Christians.

And what if two non-believers are married and one becomes a Christian? Would that also be a case of being "unequally yoked"? Or in order to prevent the unequal yoking, should they not have converted in the first place?

Paul covers this in his first letter to the Corinthians:
1Co 7:9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
1Co 7:10 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband
1Co 7:11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
1Co 7:12 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
1Co 7:13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
1Co 7:15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.
1Co 7:16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
1Co 7:17 Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches.

For a Christian and a non-believer to be in a relationship is possible, however there are going to be issues that arise because of the different beliefs. However, while dealing with these issues may be difficult, they're not necessarily insurmountable.

Just because it's not impossible doesn't mean it should be done.

__________________

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)

"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille

I think it's a very broad phrase, but not vague. It's also pretty definite.
Yes; but because of the significance of marriage itself, Christians are called to peace with an unbelieving spouse who still wants the relationship.
Possible, sure. Is it desirable to place additional constraints on a relationship though, when the instruction is "do not be unequally yoked"? To me the additional constraints of marriage are pretty-much the unequal constraints Paul is referring to.

__________________
"... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin

To us, O LORD, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you.