Denomination-specific TheologyA special subforum where a thread starter can restrict threads to replies by members of a particular denomination only to discuss denomination-specific theology.
I'm not ready to accept all the conclusions of the Calvinist. I think they get in trouble with their linear thinking:if a (that God predestines all believers) is true, then b, c, d, and e must be true. When somewhere along your chain of reasoning you end up with a God that creates some souls just so He can decree that they reject Him and and He condemn them, then I think you've tried to push your human understanding past what it is able and that's how deviant beliefs are arrived at. Its the same situation with the heresies that develop when people try to logically break down the trinity beyond what we're meant to understand. I don't think we're capable of understanding, this side of the grave, how God's sovereignty and man's moral free agency intersect, but I am convinced both are true. That's the way scripture teaches it and I think that's the way we should leave it. There's no getting around predestination and there's no getting around that God loves everyone and gave Himself as a ransom for all (I Timothy 2:6, Romans 5:8).
That being said, I believe reformed thinking brings some wonderful things to the table. I heard a statement on the radio the other day that greatly helped me. It said that the trouble with thinking we play any role whatsoever in salvation is that it can lead to us questioning our experience; did I believe hard enough, did I repent completely enough, was there any shadow of a doubt? I can relate to this because I have struggled off and on with these sorts of troublings almost all my life. I suddenly found peace when I took my focus off of me and realized it not only He that provides for my forgiveness, but also He that works the faith and He that works the repentance. I find that when I look on Him completely from start to finish, my faith is perfected...when I'm not looking at faith, but looking soley to Him. This really isn't at all contrary to what baptists teach, but looking at it from a reformed perspective, helped me to get it for some reason.
Last edited by sonofjay817; 23rd October 2009 at 06:57 AM.
And what exactly is wrong with questioning our experience? To not question is to not know, and to not know is to hold a belief that really isn't a belief at all.
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Thx for your comment. I would respond that the Bible actually tells us to examine ourselves to see that we are in the faith, so on that point, I think I agree with you. Actually, that's what I have done and what has caused me to take a new perspective on my faith. There comes a point when once we have examined ourselves adequately that we should know that we are in the faith as the apostle John says in I John 5:13, and not endlessly wallow in doubt. So, as I examined myself, I realized I was focused on my inability to generate adequate faith and repentance. Rather than focusing on Christ, I was focused inward. The thing is tricky. Almost like the transparent floaters that exist in your eye that you can only see in your peripheral vision but shoot away when you try to turn your eye to look at them...or a very dim star that you can only see by not focusing directly on it. When I focus and agonize over my imperfect faith, there is a sense of futility as there is nothing in myself that can generate perfect faith, but when I look to Christ and rest on Him to work the faith in me, sometime later it dawns on me, that in itself is the faith that comes from God and it is a different thing than what I try to work up in my own strength.
There are so many forms of hybrid Calvinism out there that one has difficulty knowing what Calvinism really is or was. Complicating matters considerably is that most of those who hold one form or another insist that their is the true Calvinism.
That being said, I think your point is well taken. Inevitably even the most ardent Arminian ends ups with your conclusion. I have rarely met any Christian who does not hold some form of assurance of their faith.
There are so many forms of hybrid Calvinism out there that one has difficulty knowing what Calvinism really is or was. Complicating matters considerably is that most of those who hold one form or another insist that their is the true Calvinism.
That being said, I think your point is well taken. Inevitably even the most ardent Arminian ends ups with your conclusion. I have rarely met any Christian who does not hold some form of assurance of their faith.
People who are constantly in doubt about their salvation have a form of scruples, honestly. It is better to put trust in the hope of salvation than to continually focus on one's doubt of it. To do so takes away from the true focus of Christ.
__________________ Causing confusion one avatar at a time.
Remember Martin Luther, if you've read his life bio, was VERY VERY worried about his own salvation.
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I believe in God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, dead, and buried:
He descended into hell;
The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
The holy catholic Church;
The Communion of Saints;
The Forgiveness of sins;
The Resurrection of the body,
And the Life everlasting.
Amen.
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