There is a lot more of a relation between Morals and Economics than a lot of people would like to admit. When the Economic Disaster of 2008 started the phrase "Moral Hazard" was used. Economic "Moral Hazard" is the concept that if you reward bad behavior, the bad behavior will be repeated and grow. Moral "Moral Hazard" is the failure to rebuke sin.
I once attended a management course for a week, then heard a sermon on Sunday. They both said the same thing. Christian Principles are good for an individual, a business and a nation.
The reason people do not like Christian Principles is because Christian Principles contain both what to do, but also what not to do. Atheists would rather have an economic disaster than to accept what the Bible says not to do. If America wants prosperity, then both the dos and the don'ts must be followed. It is not possible to legalized pornography, abortion and homosexuality then expect posterity. I do not believe God blesses an individual or a nation that violates Christian Principles. More of a possibility of destruction than blessing for the rejection of Christian Principles.
There are three parties that have created the moral and economic disaster in America: those that participate, those that advocate, and those that fail to rebuke.
It was immoral to accept the sub prime mortgages that were being offered when there was little or no possibility of paying the mortgages. Christian Principles would have provided reasons not to take on more debt than you can afford.
It was immoral to offer sub prime mortgages to people that had little or no possibility of paying the mortgages. The Community Reinvestment Act created during Democratic Administrations not only advocated sub prime mortgages, but forced banks to offer sub prime mortgages.
It was immoral for Christians not to rebuke the government for offering sub prime mortgages. Christians are failing at presenting both the dos and the don'ts of the Bible. Christians are afraid of being called judgmental. Christians take the "God is in Control" concept to an extreme that they accept anything that happens as God's Will, even if it is opposite to Christian Principles. Christians accept the Economic Disaster as God's chastisement, but forget that the immorality stated back in the Roosevelt administration with the introduction of Socialism into the government.
It is immoral for people to think that adultery and homosexuality are acceptable.
It is immoral for the Atheistic Liberal News and Entertainment Industry to advocate that adultery and homosexuality are acceptable.
It is immoral for Christians to fail to publically rebuke adultery and homosexuality, even though they will be called judgmental.
A good sermon for any preacher would be to stand in the pulpit with a newspaper in his left hand and a Bible in his right hand. He should shake the newspaper and state, "Here are the problems". He should then shake the Bible and state, "Here is the prevention, there is not cure. No amount of health care/welfare will cure the scars of sin, but God will forgive the sins and provide the Holy Spirit to guide your life to help prevent future problems, if you will accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commit to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible". A few examples could be discussed to fill in the 20 or so minutes that is allotted to the preacher.
As always you are quick to point to some immorality, but to me it seems you embrace other sins. Like greed and hatred. Both you and we tried to ban alcohol on account of it's excessive consumption being a sin. Remember? How did that work out? Not very well. Mafia was one result. Problems were created because of this, not solved.
The world is not that simple, Clirus. And I ask you: If you want abortion banned, do you also want unhealthy lifestyles banned? They probably cause 10^n more abortions every year than abortion clinics do. Will you ban birth control pills, they work (among other ways) by causing abortions.
And also, if you wish to ban abortion and porn, what's your take on greed? Your system is in many ways based on greed and selfishness. Which are both sins. But if you stop that part of life you end up with socialism - and according to you that's a sin too. So what do you want to do Clirus? Only focus on sexual sins, or take the consequences of your totalitarian views and ban any and all sin that is bannable, including greed, selfishness and materialism? You'll end up as Stalin if you do of course, but hey... That's beside the point I assume...
I find it mildly amusing that you claim Christianity and capitalism are synonymous, but at the same time you want to impose strict restrictions on trade to suit your own moral sense. Which in a sense is quite different from capitalism...
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Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim:
The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.
"no man can serve two masters; ye cannot serve both God and mammon." - Bible (Matthew 6:24)
Last edited by faith guardian; 23rd October 2009 at 04:42 AM.
If hard times are God's judgement, then it's awfully clumsy judgement. A lot of people facing foreclosure have been financially responsible, with good credit records, but lost their jobs in the general business recession and got behind on their mortgages. I'll bet they're hurting more than mortgage company executives who made some bad loans. And I'll bet the hedge and mutual fund managers and investment bankers are still in better shape than the millions of small investors whose IRAs and 401Ks were decimated when the stock market tanked. It's rather odd that God's punishment should affect the little people more severely than the bigwigs.
__________________ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. --- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
I was diagnosed with AIDS yesterday, and I can't decide whether or it was because I didn't kill that kid who swore at me from his bike, or just for generally being an atheist.
The horde of locusts that follows me home from college ever day is obviously because I support universal health care though
Last edited by peadar1987; 4th November 2009 at 08:44 AM.
Reason: I don't actually have AIDS, apologies if I didn't make that clear enough!
Atheists would rather have an economic disaster than to accept what the Bible says not to do. If America wants prosperity, then both the dos and the don'ts must be followed. It is not possible to legalized pornography, abortion and homosexuality then expect posterity.
I doubt any serious successful businessman would take bible as the guidebook to market success, I doubt anyone advocate laissez-faire economy would prefer bible to Wealth of Nations as some kind of theoretical source.
On the other hand, Jesus explicitly said it is rather difficult for a richman to come to a happy ending.
Also I failed to see why homosexuality would harm economy.
Originally Posted by clirus
It was immoral to accept the sub prime mortgages that were being offered when there was little or no possibility of paying the mortgages. Christian Principles would have provided reasons not to take on more debt than you can afford.
I agree it's immoral. It's also immensely unwise. But I assume anyone that spend more time on books dealing with economy would make less fatuous choice like that.
Originally Posted by clirus
It was immoral to offer sub prime mortgages to people that had little or no possibility of paying the mortgages. The Community Reinvestment Act created during Democratic Administrations not only advocated sub prime mortgages, but forced banks to offer sub prime mortgages.
Any notable atheist among those administrations?
Originally Posted by clirus
It is immoral for people to think that adultery and homosexuality are acceptable.
Again, I failed to see how any of the two harms the economy.
On the case of adultery, what if they hide it so well that they managed to slip through under others' noses? You wouldn't consider imitating North Korea, franchising police with the right to peep into every citizen's window, would you?
On the second case, what if someone were born to be gay?
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Quick liberals, start supporting capitalism by buying more Che T-shirt! 100% Sweat shop made!
I doubt any serious successful businessman would take bible as the guidebook to market success, I doubt anyone advocate laissez-faire economy would prefer bible to Wealth of Nations as some kind of theoretical source.
On the other hand, Jesus explicitly said it is rather difficult for a richman to come to a happy ending.
Quite. The bible is very clear on the love for money. It's not looking very fondly on it. To put it mildly.
Originally Posted by libertarianSkeptic747
Also I failed to see why homosexuality would harm economy.
In fact, I'd think it could help the economy. Debauchery of any sort is usually quite profitable. If it weren't Hollywood would not be as successful, porn would not be as popular and advertisements would be more factually (and less sexually) oriented.
Sex is often quite profitable. So is other immorality. Slavery for example, was (and is) quite profitable. So is drug running and weapon trafficking.
Originally Posted by libertarianSkeptic747
On the second case, what if someone were born to be gay?
I do consider that a fallacious argument. People can be born psycopathic but that does not make it right or good. Being born with something does not make it anything. It merely means they are not to be blamed for the condition or lack thereof.
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Originally Posted by Martin Luther King Jr.
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Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.
Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
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Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim:
The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.
"no man can serve two masters; ye cannot serve both God and mammon." - Bible (Matthew 6:24)
"Clirus" just doesn't get it - this is just another example in a long line of attempts to hijack Christianity to serve his/her ultraconservative personal economic and social agenda.
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