Final Reflections 2 - Death

"Religion" is what humans do to try to save themselves. You have the entry point of religion in the Garden with Adam and Eve being tempted to 'become like God'. The initial right relationship of God-with-humanity was shattered by religion. But the Fall was not complete until Cain killed Abel, a passionate murder inspired by religion (Cain was trying to appease God on his own terms).

And then God re-iniated relationship with Abraham. Even still, humans insisted on being religious. Clearly, this whole religion thing was getting complicated... So God chose to work with it and allowed religions to rise all over the world. Even still, in the Old Testament God keeps religion in check, refusing to allow it to progress (degenerate?) too far. All of us have the tendency towards religion deeply inside of us, it is our original sin, it is any version of us trying to do instead of allowing God to be God. The prophet Isaiah claimed that God hated the festivals and religious customs that Israel had developed. When the prophets spoke of God's judgment of surrounding people for their false religions, they included God's judgment against Israel for their false religion - for all religion is false, as it is product of humankind.

When Christ Jesus was on earth, he was tempted, as a human, to succumb to the lure of religion (yet prevailed). Christ Jesus, as God, entered human religion at its very heart and broke it. The mystery of incarnation and salvation is that God reaches us through our human falleness (religion) and yet overcomes religion. On the Cross, the temple veil was torn and Christ sighed "It is finished!" No more must humans be religious - now everyone can find right communion with God in and through the Death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus. Confess internally and publically that Christ is Lord, that Jesus rose from the dead and you will be saved.

No more do we have to be religious. We have been set free to be still and know that God is God.
One of the worst tragedies of all time was when humans tried -and mainly succeeded- into turning "Christianity" into a world religion.

Even still... it can't ever be about what humans do, but can and is always about what God did in Christ. Even this statement can be "religionized" but not in the context of relationship. In a relationship with Christ Jesus, it is as if we were still in Eden...

Of course, as Luther point out, we are both righteous and we are sinful. We are humans, we are sinful and so we are religious. No one ever escapes it. Even in a complete secular renouncement of faith, people are still trapped in the quest for 'what should I believe?' 'what should I do?' The Christian religion is a place where people meet Jesus, but in spite of the religious elements (not because of them).

So here is the context from what I said... which comes very much from the Reformed way of thinking, following Martin Luther, John Calvin and (more recently) Karl Barth.

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Because one is religious, this does not Make One a Christian, I agree with You when You say that religion is as sounding brass and tinkling cymbals No doubt that this is a great irratant to God. Never the less We are to Worship Him He is Our Savior and I love My Jesus and if that is religion , well that is all I know and it is what I am compelled to do Love Jesus and Love My fellow Man and (Woman) And I will continue until I die or the Lord Comes to earth To practice This "religion" as You say I would rather call it My Faith In Him ... Glory to God Maker of Heaven and Earth all Honor and Praises are for Him..Amen..Dave

Is Christian worship the fulfillment of a religious requirement... or is a natural byproduct which comes from having a relationship with Jesus Christ?

Please understand, we share the same faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior...I am just challenging your understanding and usage of "religion"...
(In any case, we are all prone to be religious... thankfully, Jesus meets us at this point, not because of our religiousity, but in spite of it).

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1. What do you all believe, really believe, about death?
It's the only thing you can be sure of, other than taxes.

2. What is it like to go through it?
I imagine a lot of it depends on how you die, but I think you probably slip into unconscious before anything truly unbearable occurs. Kind of like how people black out before they hit the ground after falling out of a tall building.

What happens when you "wake up"? Who can say? I had a dream once where it was extremely exhilarating and pleasant, but I won't pretend it's anything like the actual experience is.

3. What do you really believe happens when we die? What kind of judgment takes place? What is that like? What about heaven/hell/purgatory etc?
There's really no way to know. I like to think, need to think, really, that there's an afterlife, because I can't imagine not being. I like to think the powerful metaphor of death and rebirth in Christianity, derived from the nature of the universe itself, is more than metaphorical. And if it is, it will be wondrous beyond our current understanding. We will probably continue our personal growth (nothing ever stops changing) but I'm not sure purgatory and hell exist in the traditional sense.

4. Does someone like me go straight to hell?
If hell exists, I don't believe anyone who genuinely seeks the truth will go there, and you have always seemed like you do.

I feel that religion is an umbrella term for all matters of faith and spirituality, and although the ritual "requirements" can certainly be a part of that, I don't think it constitutes the entirety of the word's meaning. I understand your use of it in this context, but I hate to see a perfectly useful and benign term villainized in such a way. What are we to call one who has faith? Spiritual? Devout? Believers? All have other connotations that are equally troubling.

Anyway, like I said, I see your point, and it's rarely productive to argue semantics.

Well... the place where I was going with the whole relationship over religion discussion was that in the end, in the approach of death... you cannot trust in the correctness of yours (or anyone else's) religion - not even the Christian religion can save you.

However, the only place you can put your trust in is in your relationship with God. In short, you have to release everything into God's house, realizing that everything death and beyond is so out of your control and that only God's sovereignty has any say anyways.

That being said, in due time, I will return to answer my own questions.

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1. What do you all believe, really believe, about death?

Death is natural, everything dies, and is reborn. We see it everyday.


2. What is it... and, what is it like to go through it?

I don't remember the last time I died, so I can't say for sure. But death is a part of everyday life. If we didn't die we wouldn't have any reason to live.


3. What do you really believe happens when we die?

What happens when one's soul departs from it's mortal body is up to them. The time we spend between lives is a state of mind, so it will be different for everyone. If you're asking what I believe will happen to me when I die then that's different. I believe my spirit will go to a place of rest until it is ready to be reincarnated. But of course that's just me.


What kind of judgment takes place?

I don't believe Deity will judge anyone after death. I believe a person is punished for their wrongdoings during their life through karma. It's up to them to learn from their mistakes.


What about heaven/hell/purgatory etc?

For me, it will be a place of rest, reflection, purification, and rebirth. In order for there to be a heaven/hell/purgatory/etc type place, and for souls to be sent there. They would first have to be judged which I don't believe occurs. In my mind, it's more of a self-evaluation if you will. The soul reflects on its life and tries again.


4. Does someone like me go straight to hell?

Most certainly not! It would be so very awful for me if I had to go around thinking about all the people who's souls shall suffer after death. That's why I don't believe in hell.

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"People only see what they are prepared to see."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"For every joy there is a price to be paid."
- Egyptian proverb

Don't pay the ferryman.

As above so below.

behold...

Friday the 13th. Herein begins a new era...
one of pain and suffering, of loss and tears... This is the apocalypse of this present order, even now, it is being undone. The stars in heaven hide themselves from the pornography of humanity.

Light a candle for the angels - for those departed...
Set me aflame and cast me free, away you wretched world of terrors.

The devils are really angels, freeing me from the Earth.

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Paxi, that doesn't sound good at all. Just know that I love you, and I'm praying for you. Trust God, love Jesus.

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Interestingly enough, I spent my Friday the 13th up in the desolate woods in a small cabin without electricity or running water....but no lake.

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It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, oppressive, insipid. When faith is replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion -- its message becomes meaningless. - Abraham Heschel

I'm praying for your strength, Paxi.

There's love and light awaiting us.

The fear is part of how we're made.

It doesn't mean it's right.

And I'm praying for your strength, Paxi.

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I removed my "Christian" icon, as it serves no purpose here.

James 2: 1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism.

8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[
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] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.


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