I still believe that Jesus was the Messiah based on my own personal interpretation and conviction.
Thanks to everyone who has posted verses so far and references to prophecies. I've enjoyed looking them up!
Well, these kinds of questions are the ones that usually spark the most fires. People are very passionate about their beliefs, so it's difficult to discuss them in a civil way when people get fired up. It only takes one person saying something in an unkind fashion to start it too.
Do you have any more questions that you would like answered?
__________________ Proverbs 25:21
If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
Exodus 23:5
If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it.
There is plenty of historical evidence that shows that Jesus of Nazareth existed. The dispute arises as to whether or not He was all the Christians say He was. We even actually learned about Jesus in my Western Civilization class last year as a strong political influence of the time. If you would like some information/links on the subject, let me know. I'd be glad to dig them up for you.
Actually, historical evidence is more than scarce (which in itself hardly means that Jesus didn't exist, seeing how he was a Jewish peasant living on the outskirts of the Roman empire).
Virtually all of our sources on the matter are Roman histories written at the end of the 1st/the beginning of the 2nd century, talking about Christians and their beliefs - which, naturally, included belief in Jesus of Nazareth. They are classical examples of hearsay.
Jesus himself wasn't even a small light in the political arena - he didn't register at all. The Christian sects, on the other hand, were pretty soon perceived as a threat to Roman hegemony.
That said, I do believe that there was a historical Jesus, though naturally I'd dispute that he bore too much resemblance to the God-Man described in the Bible. I consider the existence of Christianity in its various guises to be circumstantial evidence, and find it highly unlikely that the apostles invented the man altogether. It is far more likely that there was indeed a street preacher who got crucified, only to have his death and defeat turned into a spectacular victory after the fashion of other birth-death-rebirth deities.
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Well, these kinds of questions are the ones that usually spark the most fires. People are very passionate about their beliefs, so it's difficult to discuss them in a civil way when people get fired up. It only takes one person saying something in an unkind fashion to start it too.
Do you have any more questions that you would like answered?
If I may repectfully ask an off topic question.
Do the Jews believe the Saul/Paul of the NT existed and what are yours and/or their views of him and his Epistles. Thanks and Shalom
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GT Fundies. Who are they? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
quote FSTDT: From what I've seen, LLJ is a bit of a bible-quoting robot. Often he posts things in General Apologetics that are quite off-topic. At least he doesn't call Atheists deluded unlike most Christians. I think that he's too far gone to be saved at this point. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hebrews 2:14Therefore then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood and He in like manner did partake to the same. That thru the Death He might take-away the one having the power of the Death, that is the Devil
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Do the Jews believe the Saul/Paul of the NT existed and what are yours and/or their views of him and his Epistles. Thanks and Shalom
There is more evidence to state that Paul existed than Jesus. I'm fairly sure Paul existed. As to my own views, since I won't pretend to speak for all Jews, he seems to be the main trigger point for Christianity today. He influenced the religion far more than Jesus did, laying down most of the accepted theology. He spread it to the gentile world and, for the most part, broke down much of the Jewishness Christianity had before.
__________________ Proverbs 25:21
If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
Exodus 23:5
If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it.
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why not live a life of sin and repent after?? well for one you don't know when you will stand before God and if you are standing before God then it is to late to repent..
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why not live a life of sin and repent after?? well for one you don't know when you will stand before God and if you are standing before God then it is to late to repent..
Just wanted your take on it, thats all, nothing more than that.
It very well could be a messianic prophecy. It talks about a king that will be ruler over the entire planet, and that is certainly a messianic theme.
That being said, in Jewish translation the phrase "kiss the son" is not there. The word "bar" is son in Aramaic, which means we have to assume that the psalmist wrote in Hebrew, switched to Aramaic for one word, then right back to Hebrew. That doesn't seem very likely to me, especially in light of later verses where the Hebrew word "b'nai" is used for son.
__________________ Proverbs 25:21
If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
Exodus 23:5
If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it.
Jews considered all the claimed "prophecies" to be phony. So they do not believe in Jesus as a messiah.
But why don't xians consider Mohammed a messiah?
Muslim believe the jewish and christian scripture are corrupt and insist on jews and christians following their version of scripture. Muslims claim Ishmael, not Issac, for example was the one Abram attempted to sacrifice on the altar. Muslims claim they have a gospel 600 years after Jesus death that says Jesus did not die and is not the Son of God.
Jesus and the apostles of the bible, the christian bible, not the muslim one, warned against false teachers who would come, warned against those who pervert the gospel and deny Jesus as the Son of God and so forth. So I have every reason to reject Muhammad. Furthermore, Muhammad claims he was The Prophet spoke of in Deutronomy when the gospels say it was Jesus. Also, Muhammad distorts Jesus teaching about the Holy Spirit, by saying it is Gabriel, not the Spirit of God, when clearly, in the gospels, it is talking about the Spirit of God and pentecost. One more thing, Jesus in the gospels declared all foods clean and Peter had a vision to affirm this as well, but Muslims cry out differently.
Muhammad I believe is an antichrist, as John so puts it in his 1st epistle.
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why not live a life of sin and repent after?? well for one you don't know when you will stand before God and if you are standing before God then it is to late to repent..
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