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  #41  
Old 22nd October 2009, 12:36 PM
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as for those who say
he should have remarried his divorced wife...

I can show you that
that would be sinful...

Deuteronomy 24:3-4

""""if the latter husband hate her (a woman
divorced, then remarried)
and write her a bill of divorcement,
(a divorce in God's eyes),
... or if the latter husband die (and make
her a widow),
her former husband which sent her
away may not take her again to be
his wife, ..."""""

the verse goes on to explain that
the remarriage to the former husband
after a divorce is 'defiling' (i.e. sinful)
to her...

the marriage to the other man
is not said to be defiling, i.e. sinful...
nor would marriage to any other man
other than her divorced former husband...

so remarriage is not sinful...
only remarriage to a divorced former partner..

God considers marriage permanent,
and usually divorce is sinful...
but not an unpardonable sin...

once divorced, God considers
remarriage to the one he/she formerly
had divorced to be sinful,
but not marriage to another...

so...
there are some out there who have
remarried former partners...

in this age of grace, God can forgive
that sin, it is not unpardonable either...
but...
it is not God's plan...
and it should not be encouraged or sought...
any more than the divorce should have
been...

so those who condemn todd bentley's
remarriage have no scripture to condemn
him for that, but would had he remarried
his former wife that he divorced...

but, no one wants to check scripture
to see that...

when one checks the Greek words
used by Jesus on the subject of
separation and divorce,
theyh would find the 'judgmentalism
on 'remarriage' is not validated...

but that would be a bit of work

check out the subject of
Christian marriage
at
armyofprophets.com

if you want to save some work
on the Greek... LOL
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  #42  
Old 22nd October 2009, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
Let's not downplay David's consequences. I think there is a tendency for us to glaze over the messy details of the rest of Davids life.

Because of what David did his family was torn in half. One of his sons raped another sister and Absalom began a civil war that sent David into exile and tore the kingdom in half for a short time. The sword did not leave David's house. The bible tells us his sin did leave some terrible consequences for him and his family.
My point is that he wasn't left entirely desolate. Which is what the modern evangelical church would seem to like to do to anyone who has failed.

I'm not saying I think Todd Bentley is legitimate. Personally at best I believe him to be a bad joke as far as ministry goes, but I think this restoration business sheds a light on how we treat people who screw up. Todd Bentley not withstanding.

Consider Ted Haggard. He will never be restored in the eyes of the average church going American. Even if he wanted to return to ministry most people would never give him that chance. In fact the church he founded was so adamant that he'd never return that they made him sign an agreement never to return to Colorado. That takes a lot of anger and bitterness not just to throw someone out of the church but be so enraged that you make them agree to leave their own home.

Jim Baker is another example. Evangelical America will never really give him a second chance because he was found in adultery. Yet if you listen to his messages today they're soundly based in good doctrine.

I guess I just get frustrated that we so often preach restoration and forgiveness but as Christians we really don't believe in restoration or forgiveness within our own church walls. To the general congregants sometimes, but not to the leaders.

Not that I should paint a broad brush across all Christians but it happens more than it should and this thread is a good indication of that.
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  #43  
Old 22nd October 2009, 02:30 PM
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the church of God are the only people that kicks their fallen while they're down and tries to hold them down.

True but sad
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  #44  
Old 22nd October 2009, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bsd31 View Post
My point is that he wasn't left entirely desolate. Which is what the modern evangelical church would seem to like to do to anyone who has failed.

I'm not saying I think Todd Bentley is legitimate. Personally at best I believe him to be a bad joke as far as ministry goes, but I think this restoration business sheds a light on how we treat people who screw up. Todd Bentley not withstanding.

Consider Ted Haggard. He will never be restored in the eyes of the average church going American. Even if he wanted to return to ministry most people would never give him that chance. In fact the church he founded was so adamant that he'd never return that they made him sign an agreement never to return to Colorado. That takes a lot of anger and bitterness not just to throw someone out of the church but be so enraged that you make them agree to leave their own home.

Jim Baker is another example. Evangelical America will never really give him a second chance because he was found in adultery. Yet if you listen to his messages today they're soundly based in good doctrine.

I guess I just get frustrated that we so often preach restoration and forgiveness but as Christians we really don't believe in restoration or forgiveness within our own church walls. To the general congregants sometimes, but not to the leaders.

Not that I should paint a broad brush across all Christians but it happens more than it should and this thread is a good indication of that.

I believe in restoration. For example I've cheered on Jim Baker over the years.

Honestly...do you think a guy is really "restored" less than a year after leaving his wife? That's what happened with Bentley and my rabbit ears are all the way up on this.
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  #45  
Old 23rd October 2009, 04:13 AM
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It amazes me that people here still see a need to argue this out. It's been well over a year now, let it go...
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  #46  
Old 23rd October 2009, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nephilimiyr View Post
It amazes me that people here still see a need to argue this out. It's been well over a year now, let it go...
Death, taxes, and arguments on CF about Todd Bentley; 3 certainties of life.

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  #47  
Old 24th October 2009, 06:01 AM
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  #48  
Old 24th October 2009, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
I believe in restoration. For example I've cheered on Jim Baker over the years.

Honestly...do you think a guy is really "restored" less than a year after leaving his wife? That's what happened with Bentley and my rabbit ears are all the way up on this.
And that leads to some 64k questions.... What is the time line before we should consider someone could possibly be restored? Is there a time line? If salvation is instant, why wouldn't restoration be?

Above and beyond Todd Bentley or anyone in particular...
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  #49  
Old 24th October 2009, 10:24 AM
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I think we should demand higher standards for our leaders as they would of us.
1 Timothy 3:1-13
1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. 8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
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  #50  
Old 24th October 2009, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
I think we should demand higher standards for our leaders as they would of us.
So with a cursory glance at that section scripture you gave it looks almost as if a "fallen" church leader isn't ever supposed to be restored. A one chance kind of thing. Do you read it the same way?
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