"It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness."
Here are some scriptures from the Bible regarding my above statement:
"Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them: how much more are you better than the fowls?" (Luke 12:24). This is repeated in Matthew 6:26.
"Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that [King] Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass...how much more will he clothe you..." (Luke 12:27 & 28)
Verses 29-31 go on to tell us that therefore we should not worry about anything, because God knows what we need and will provide such for us.
Also, "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, you are of more value [to God] than many sparrows" (Matthew 10:29-31).
"He gives to the beast his food, and to the young ravens which cry." (Psalm 147:9) "The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy." (Psalm 147:11)
"But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:19)
On another note, you asked:
"How? That's the $64,000 question I want answered. How does one go from believing God exists, to having faith in him and a relationship with him?"
Please refer to my above comment regarding accepting that Jesus Christ died to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. After accepting this, we must ask Jesus to come into our lives and hearts in order that we may fully live for him. Once again, this is a necessary step to receiving that life changing relationship with God.
I guess you could label me as a "seeker" as I've spent the past several years trying to figure out God/religion/faith/Christianity. I've read a lot of apologetics books in my quest to understand all this. Since, by nature, I'm a very analytical person, facts speak to me much more than emotions and feelings, which has made it extremely difficult for me to come to a point where I can truly understand this whole faith thing.
Having said that, I think I've grasped the concept of God as the creator of the universe and life. There are actually many facts in our world that support the concept of God as the creator of life. My analytical nature is, for the most part, satisfied by these facts so I'm not a seeker from that perspective. The Deist sees God as a hands-off creator who, once He created the universe and life, really has nothing more to do with us. That would sum up my understanding of God right now.
However, when it comes to understanding the concept of God as a "personal God," who loves me, cares for me, and desires to have a relationship with me, I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense to me. There seems to be a huge wall that is preventing me from going any further into the "personal" realm -- that is, understanding God as a personal God.
Going to church is downright depressing. Walking into church with 1,000 people who do "get it" makes me feel inferior (I know many in church don't really get it, many are afraid to admit they don't get it), defective, and just plain old dumb. What do they know that I don't? is what I'm thinking. How could so many people be singing along with "Jesus is my boyfriend" as if He was physically present and listening, when I don't experience that. I always leave church more skeptical than I do when I enter.
I guess experiencing the emotional, personal side of God is either something I'm not wired to understand. I'm not much of a touchy-feely person, so when it comes to having to base a relationship with someone I can't see entirely on emotions and love, that just doesn't compute for me. Praying is a good example. I feel pretty strange praying, because to me it just feels like I'm talking to myself, which is really weird (to me) since it's directed toward someone else.
How does one, who might be called emotionally bankrupt, ever connect to a person (God) who is based purely on emotions (e.g., love)? I can convince myself until the cows come home that there is a creator, but trying to have a relationship with an invisible being is just too far out there for me to ever understand.
You won't know God till he convicts your spirit. When he does that, it will knock you to your knees asking for forgiveness of sin. Only then will you get it.
__________________ Psalm 51:10
Create in me a pure heart, O God.
After I wrote my last post, I realize that I have not asked if you already knew that that the Bible states that no one can come to the Father God accept through Jesus Christ his son? And that we do this by confessing that we have sins and that we believe/accept that Jesus died on the cross for our sins in order that we may have eternal life.
Have you ever said this prayer of confession and acceptance? For this is the very first and most important step in having a relationship with God.
Yes, more than once. I've prayed many times for God to reveal himself to me, and I've prayed many times to get over my doubt and to be given faith ih God. You probably can't convince me that I wasn't just talking to myself at this point.
You won't know God till he convicts your spirit. When he does that, it will knock you to your knees asking for forgiveness of sin. Only then will you get it.
So it's just a waiting game? Nothing I can do will expedite it? Makes it sound like I should just sit back in my recliner, open a beer, and wait for him to come knocking at the door. Is that really all there is to it?
"It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness."
Here are some scriptures from the Bible regarding my above statement:
"Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them: how much more are you better than the fowls?" (Luke 12:24). This is repeated in Matthew 6:26.
"Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that [King] Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass...how much more will he clothe you..." (Luke 12:27 & 28)
Verses 29-31 go on to tell us that therefore we should not worry about anything, because God knows what we need and will provide such for us.
Also, "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, you are of more value [to God] than many sparrows" (Matthew 10:29-31).
"He gives to the beast his food, and to the young ravens which cry." (Psalm 147:9) "The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy." (Psalm 147:11)
"But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:19)
No offense, but using the Bible to prove God is like using circular logic to someone who is struggling with the God of the Bible. Just throwing that out there. My eyes just glaze over when I see verses thrown out like that.
Originally Posted by MLEN
On another note, you asked:
Originally Posted by trustgod
"How? That's the $64,000 question I want answered. How does one go from believing God exists, to having faith in him and a relationship with him?"
Please refer to my above comment regarding accepting that Jesus Christ died to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. After accepting this, we must ask Jesus to come into our lives and hearts in order that we may fully live for him. Once again, this is a necessary step to receiving that life changing relationship with God.
By accept what specifically do you mean, the "sinners prayer" that you mentioned earlier? Having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut.
Last edited by trustgod; 28th October 2009 at 11:29 AM.
Thanks. I watched the first two. He's a Christian talking Christians, people who have already accepted God and have a relationship with him. Got any videos aimed at people who haven't yet?
Last edited by trustgod; 28th October 2009 at 10:26 PM.
"No offense, but using the Bible to prove God is like using circular logic to someone who is struggling with the God of the Bible."
You asked me earlier to show what confirms that God cares for us more than the plants and animals, thus I gave some Bible scriptures that confirm it. I did this based on the thought that you not only believed in God, but that you also believe what he says in the Bible is true. Therefore, I was not using the Bible to prove God (because you had already said you believe in him).
However, (and please correct me if I am wrong) it appears that you do not necessarily believe that what is written in the Bible is God's own true words?
On another note:
"I've prayed many times for God to reveal himself to me, and I've prayed many times to get over my doubt and to be given faith in God."
"By accept what specifically do you mean, the "sinners prayer" that you mentioned earlier? Having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut."
Actually, I never called it the "sinners prayer", and intentionally so, as this is usually a termed used by people who understand it to be such and I did not know if you would understand the term.
Nevertheless, this is what I mean: In the Bible, we are told by Jesus himself that there is only one way to the Father and that way is via Jesus Christ. The "sinners prayer" is simply accepting that all humanity, including you and I, have sinned against God at some point in our lives. Now the penalty of sin is death, so the Bible says. And the only way to avoid that penalty is to confess that we are sinners, and then to accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross to take away our sins in order to give us eternal life (instead of death). We must also ask Jesus to dwell in us, so that we may live fully for him.
Is this the type of prayer you are talking about when you mentioned "having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut?"
You asked me earlier to show what confirms that God cares for us more than the plants and animals, thus I gave some Bible scriptures that confirm it. I did this based on the thought that you not only believed in God, but that you also believe what he says in the Bible is true. Therefore, I was not using the Bible to prove God (because you had already said you believe in him).
However, (and please correct me if I am wrong) it appears that you do not necessarily believe that what is written in the Bible is God's own true words?
I believe that there is a creator of the universe and of life. Are you familiar with Deism? a Deist believes a supreme being created the universe, but doesn't think that that creator intervenes in human affairs. I'm not saying that I am a Deist, but that's the best description of my understanding of God. So, to answer your question, I am indeed struggling with the Christian God, and so am not sure of what the Bible represents.
Originally Posted by MLEN
Actually, I never called it the "sinners prayer", and intentionally so, as this is usually a termed used by people who understand it to be such and I did not know if you would understand the term.
No, you didn't. Didn't mean to imply you did. I've just heard that kind of prayer referred to as the "sinner's prayer."
Originally Posted by MLEN
Nevertheless, this is what I mean: In the Bible, we are told by Jesus himself that there is only one way to the Father and that way is via Jesus Christ. The "sinners prayer" is simply accepting that all humanity, including you and I, have sinned against God at some point in our lives. Now the penalty of sin is death, so the Bible says. And the only way to avoid that penalty is to confess that we are sinners, and then to accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross to take away our sins in order to give us eternal life (instead of death). We must also ask Jesus to dwell in us, so that we may live fully for him.
Is this the type of prayer you are talking about when you mentioned "having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut?"
Yes. Regadless of what you call it, I prayed for forgiveness for my sins and asked God into my life. I did that a number of years ago, and have prayed a number of times since for God to help me understand him and to come into my life. I don't know whether my prayers weren't sincere enough or what, but the fact that I'm still on this side of the fence tells me that he didn't hear me, or did hear me but chose not to answer my prayer. Eight years is a long time to wait for God to enter one's life! Or maybe he did enter my life but my need for proof drove him out? Wish I knew.
I do know I have an aversion to authority figures. Not in the sense that I disrepect all authority, but instead I have a difficult time accepting authority from superiors. Having thought about this a bit more, I believe that my distaste for authority figures might be related to not being able to get it. In our society, and especially for men, we are told to be self-sufficient, stand on our own two legs, be leaders, independant and in control of our lives. Couple that ubiquitous mindset with the Christian mindset which says that we are not self-sufficient, are not independant, and are not to stand on our own legs, and maybe you can see a where I'm coming from. How can I both be self-sufficient and in control and at the same time not be self-sufficient and in control? It's an either/or from my perspective. Does that make sense?
"I believe that there is a creator of the universe and of life. Are you familiar with Deism? a Deist believes a supreme being created the universe, but doesn't think that that creator intervenes in human affairs. I'm not saying that I am a Deist, but that's the best description of my understanding of God. So, to answer your question, I am indeed struggling with the Christian God, and so am not sure of what the Bible represents."
Thank you for clarifying, I do understand your situation much better now.
"Yes. Regadless of what you call it, I prayed for forgiveness for my sins and asked God into my life. I did that a number of years ago, and have prayed a number of times since for God to help me understand him and to come into my life. I don't know whether my prayers weren't sincere enough or what,"
If you did sincerely say that prayer of forgiveness and ask Jesus to come into your life, then you have received the gift of eternal life and God. You must believe this by faith, not by what you may or may not `feel' (or by what kind of Christian experience you see others having). Just as you said the prayer by faith, now you must live by faith in Christ Jesus. By this I mean you need to, by faith, build that relationship with God by spending time with him via reading his Words to you (as written in the Bible). By doing this you will get to know him better. You will learn what good things he has in store for you as you obey his words spoken to you through the Bible. Daily prayer is also important. Just have a conversation with him. Thank him for the many blessings he has already given you, ask him to lead you throughout your day. Talk to him about your deepest concerns and joys.
"How can I both be self-sufficient and in control and at the same time not be self-sufficient and in control? It's an either/or from my perspective. Does that make sense?"
Yes, that does make sense because I was the type who always wanted to be in control of my life. Then I realized that I can't do everything all the time all by myself, because I was not omnipotent like God is. Now I do what I can, and leave the rest to him. It is so peaceful to know that the creator of the universe has got me covered even in areas that are out of my control. Living like this takes away a lot of worry and stress on my part, and allows God to show me just how amazing and more than capable he is in taking care of all of my needs. Do you see what I mean?
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