Don't Get It

trustgod · #21 22nd October 2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by D ~ Revived

Correct me if I'm off base but it sounds to me that the issue isn't the whole personal relationship with God...it's the enemy. A relationship with God is based on a reciprocal flow of love and blessings. The enemy, however, wants nothing more than to take your blessings. And he knows that by suppressing your faith, he has taken your blessings.

I've never heard a relationship with God described as the reciprocation of blessings. How can I possibly bless God?

Originally Posted by D ~ Revived

It seems we both agree that the bible is not difficult to understand. Living it is the key. If you also agree that the issue may indeed be with the enemy, then you need to remain steadfast in your convictions, your love for Jesus and the truth of His Word. To give your entire life and not certain aspects.

To live the Bible first assumes you internalize what it is saying. Then you make the effort to live it. That's my understanding at least. Not trying to split hairs here though.

Problem is, I don't have any convictions, at least when it comes to Jesus, God, or the Bible. That requires "getting it" first, which I haven't done yet.

Originally Posted by D ~ Revived

The Kingdom of God is founded on revelations, truths, acceptance, openness and sincerity. Alternatively, there is the kingdom of evil that is no less absolute in its falseness and its betrayal. The question is whether or not you are equally as steadfast to insure that the issues of Christian living and Christian duty are clearly discerned.

To truly take a stand and LIVE your beliefs, you cannot conform to both the truths of God and to wavering principles. A Christian life is a transformed life, not a conformed life.

True, but you're still assuming I'm living a Christian life, which I don't think I am, as measured by most yardsticks. I'm not purposely living a non-Christian life, either. I'm living, and seeking, and still not getting it.

Revived · #22 22nd October 2009, 02:43 PM

For the record bro, my intention isn't to belittle you in any way (I hope it hasn't been construed in that fashion) but I do feel you need(ed) a bit of tough love.

What I haven't mentioned thus far is that, early in my walk, I embodied a lot of the same feelings you've articulated. Having said that, the best advice I can give you at this point is to impart the most unyielding reality I faced throughout this phase...which was that God does not and will not bless "poor me" and defeatist attitudes.

I had to dig deep and make a concerted effort to examine every aspect of my life to that point. With a steadfast belief that your past is your past and should only be used as a compass pointing forward, I began by recollecting every big decision I had made and the outcome of those decisions with no regard to how they were impacted (by my childhood, parenting, peer pressure, whatever). It's done and over with. Forget it.

The irony was that, when I put an end to this inner facade and allowed genuine honesty with myself, the simple fact was that I had been overwhelmingly indecisive throughout my life. I had become adept at somehow convincing myself, as well as others around me, that my decisions and actions were carefully planned, meticulously researched, based on past experiences. That I was organized, thorough, confident and trustworthy...it was all BS. I had walked through life with minimal responsibility and even less accountability. Morally, I wasn't mean-spirited in any way and I felt genuine remorse as a result of decisions gone awry but at the end of each day, I was an absolute fraud that lied on a daily basis and meandered through life on the fence with no solid convictions or foundation.

Feeling a tad crushed and slightly lost, I gathered myself and found the wherewithal and the strength to make just one decision at that point -- that my days on the fence were over. I chose Christ and even though I had many bouts in the beginning with disbelief, backsliding, the whole deal -- I persevered by breaking it down to this simple fact. I WILL NOT go back to that life. Period. I had to repeat this to myself numerous times along the way (remember, repetition created persuasion) but when I reached the point in which I could say it and live it with absolute conviction, I began to see the small victories that had somehow gone unnoticed. In retrospect, God knew exactly how to handle it. I was the greyhound and he dangled the treat just far enough ahead. I had sprinted out of the gate and by the time I looked back, I was amazed at how far I had come. The best part? I'm still on the track taking victory laps.

So from my perspective, you can either sprint or meander...only you can make that call.

Prayerfully,
Derrick

Revived · #23 23rd October 2009, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by trustgod

I've never heard a relationship with God described as the reciprocation of blessings. How can I possibly bless God?

What do you hear almost invariably when someone sneezes? God, Bless You.

In all seriousness, I'd say this short article sums it up quite nicely...

You Can Bless God By Enjoying Him | revelife

Prayerfully,
Derrick

trustgod · #24 26th October 2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Revived 4 Life

For the record bro, my intention isn't to belittle you in any way (I hope it hasn't been construed in that fashion) but I do feel you need(ed) a bit of tough love.

What I haven't mentioned thus far is that, early in my walk, I embodied a lot of the same feelings you've articulated. Having said that, the best advice I can give you at this point is to impart the most unyielding reality I faced throughout this phase...which was that God does not and will not bless "poor me" and defeatist attitudes.

I had to dig deep and make a concerted effort to examine every aspect of my life to that point. With a steadfast belief that your past is your past and should only be used as a compass pointing forward, I began by recollecting every big decision I had made and the outcome of those decisions with no regard to how they were impacted (by my childhood, parenting, peer pressure, whatever). It's done and over with. Forget it.

The irony was that, when I put an end to this inner facade and allowed genuine honesty with myself, the simple fact was that I had been overwhelmingly indecisive throughout my life. I had become adept at somehow convincing myself, as well as others around me, that my decisions and actions were carefully planned, meticulously researched, based on past experiences. That I was organized, thorough, confident and trustworthy...it was all BS. I had walked through life with minimal responsibility and even less accountability. Morally, I wasn't mean-spirited in any way and I felt genuine remorse as a result of decisions gone awry but at the end of each day, I was an absolute fraud that lied on a daily basis and meandered through life on the fence with no solid convictions or foundation.

Feeling a tad crushed and slightly lost, I gathered myself and found the wherewithal and the strength to make just one decision at that point -- that my days on the fence were over. I chose Christ and even though I had many bouts in the beginning with disbelief, backsliding, the whole deal -- I persevered by breaking it down to this simple fact. I WILL NOT go back to that life. Period. I had to repeat this to myself numerous times along the way (remember, repetition created persuasion) but when I reached the point in which I could say it and live it with absolute conviction, I began to see the small victories that had somehow gone unnoticed. In retrospect, God knew exactly how to handle it. I was the greyhound and he dangled the treat just far enough ahead. I had sprinted out of the gate and by the time I looked back, I was amazed at how far I had come. The best part? I'm still on the track taking victory laps.

So from my perspective, you can either sprint or meander...only you can make that call.

Prayerfully,
Derrick

Here's a question for you. One that pretty much sums up the whole gist of what where I'm at right now. I am one who relies overwhelmingly on data, facts and concrete evidence for just about every big decision, and I mean everything. I researched flat-screen TV's for six months before buying one. I researched MP3 players for a couple months. I study cereal boxes before purchasing. I've "researched" God for over 8 years. Every decision I make is not made before I have all the facts in hand. Note, this doesn't apply to simple pleasures, like which bag of cookies to raid, but I think you get the gist of how I make decisions.

So, with that in mind, how does one who relies overwhelmingly on data, facts and concrete evidence for just about every big decision reconcile the gap between fact and that which is unseen (and thus, unproven)? Do you see my dilemma? Do you see how I can stand on the sidelines and see millions of people give their life to God and yet not understand how they can make that decision without the benefit of full knowledge of what that decision means and where it will lead them? Oh, you'll say the Bible is truth, and that truth leads to eternal life. But I ask, how do you *really* (and I mean really) know? You don't. You're making a calculated decision, but a decision not 100% based on full knowledge.

That gap, the deficit between what the Bible says, which is unproven, and my need for full knowledge, is why I am still not "in the game," so to speak. I am a spectator, waiting for that one last piece of information to drop which will either confirm or deny the whole Christian thing. Believing something on faith isn't in my DNA. It's just not in my nature to read a book and then say "Wow -- this sounds good. I think I'll buy into it." I am a huge skeptic of everything, so unless Christianity can offer more evidence than what currently exists, I imagine I will remain in the "not getting it crowd." I don't see it as my fault, either. If God made me this way, as Christians posit, then God would surely have a way for people of my type to "get it."

Does this clarify where I stand better?

Revived · #25 26th October 2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by trustgod

Does this clarify where I stand better?

Absolutely! I can say that with genuine empathy because I've had similar tendencies as well regarding indecisiveness. To be more specific, one of the prevailing thoughts that prevented my leap from spectator to participant was the following questions: 'How can a good, loving God exist with all the evil in the world? If God is real then He should stop all this evil because are we not taught that He's all-powerful?'

The answer I needed came to me in the lyrics of a song back in the summer of '08. There's a spoken part of the song that says this: What exactly is evil? It's anything that's against God. It's anything morally bad or wrong. It's murder, rape, stealing, lying, cheating. If we want God to stop evil, however, do we want Him to stop all evil or just certain evils? If He stops us from doing evil things, what about lying, or what about our evil thoughts? Honestly, where do you stop? The murder level, the lying level or the thinking level? If we want Him to stop evil, we gotta be consistent; we can't just pick and choose. That means you and I would be eliminated right? If that's true, then we all should be eliminated! Personally, I thank God that he sent Jesus to save us from our sin. Christ died for all evilness.'

You may find this completely irrelevant but, for me, seeing a completely different perspective on evilness was a true watershed moment. These lyrics, buried in a fairly obscure song, answered a fundamental question that not only had surfaced numerous times in my mind, it had also become a cornerstone of my disbelief.

Shortly thereafter, I had a brief conversation with a friend of mine who was well aware of my struggles with faith and also the testimony I posted earlier in this same thread. To quickly preface, several years back this same friend asked if I had ever seen the arrow in the FedEx logo and joked that from that point forward, I'll never see the logo without focusing on the arrow. He was right!

So as I began to speak of this new revelation regarding evilness, he could sense a wavering uncertainty. There was still something missing within me. He then posed two simple questions:

"Remember the FedEx logo?"

ME: "I hate you for that" lol/lol

"Well, I have another question. Where did it start and where did it begin?"

ME: "Where did what start and what begin?"

"Everything. Where did everything begin and where does everything end? Think about it and get back to me."

I knew where he was going with this because I'd often thought of this question. A question in which no one can answer definitively. Once again however, hearing it from a different perspective, under different circumstances and with a slightly different mindset, this inner facade of disbelief had become far less formidable. Verses such as "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" were far more discernible and Christianity became a well lit doorway in a room filled with darkness.

Proverbs 13:12 states, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but desire fulfilled is a tree of life." When we reject God's hope for our lives (which is often manifested through conformity, pride, materialism, indifference...) we sense that our fulfillment (our heart) has become lost and perhaps forgotten (sick). Desire fulfilled is a way of saying God's will is our hearts desire. It will bloom and give fruit to fill everything with life and love.

Despite years of irresponsibility, indecision, an utter lack of accountability throughout, a battle with alcoholism, the loss of a well-paying job and a painstaking divorce with kids involved tossed in for good measure, I have managed to find my way back. I've learned to give and love with no expectations or conditions. I've realized the absolute importance of replacing blame, guilt, shame; the entire lamenting routine with an invariable responsibility. A responsibility not only to my children and to my family but most importantly, a responsibility to leading a life centered on Christ. When I finally reached this point, I began to understand and delineate between simply attending church...listening to a Christian CD here and there, quoting scripture and telling people I'm a Christian. These are all admirable traits but until I consistently allowed new perspectives and a renewing of my mind, I was only "attending" church and not absorbing the Word, "listening" to Christian music and not hearing it..."quoting" scripture and "telling people" I'm a Christian instead of living it. As a result of this transformation, my entire existence became flooded with belief, purpose, confidence and joy. Endeavors that were once imposing...sobriety, continuing my education, furthering my career, seeking new relationships, etc...were handled with ease. The affects have been and continue to be tangible in every aspect of my life.

In retrospect, I am thankful to God for closing these doors in my life. I'm thankful because I believe it was through grace and timing that He placed certain individuals and circumstances in my life that have led me into and through this new door filled with blessings and peace. The conformity, pride, materialism and indifference have been replaced with repentance, acceptance, openness, forgiveness and sincerity.

When I remained centered on God's will and His timing, I begin to think differently. I begin to use the discernment and the wisdom that He graciously provided and ingrained within me so that I could live my life with clarity and hope...to discern between what reveals my weaknesses and what reveals my strengths...who creates loss and who creates gain...which door to choose when one becomes closed. Not unlike the arrow in the logo, my focus has been forever changed.

One person, one post, one song or one anecdote is unlikely to change pervasive indecision but the mere fact that you're open to discuss the subject should be acknowledged and embraced. In all sincerity, my hope is that the answers to your questions bring you happiness and fulfillment and in some way, my testimony and the testimony of others will eventually find their way into your heart and allow you to embody this incomparable feeling of grace and peace.

Prayerfully,
Derrick

trustgod · #26 27th October 2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Revived 4 Life

Prayerfully,
Derrick

Thanks for your post and continued effort to help me see the light. My wiring must be seriously defective, because while that was an interesting post and story, it didn't help me get any closer on my quest for understanding.

I am pretty certain it is my wiring, and not your efforts (how many other people are wired this way, I wonder?). I think I just have a higher burden of proof than most people here, so I will be forever stymied in my effort to "get it." With that, and not wanting to create animosity here, I won't press this anymore. I'm resigned to never getting it, I'm afraid. So, thanks for all who have helped. I do appreciate it.

Revived · #27 27th October 2009, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by trustgod

Thanks for your post and continued effort to help me see the light. My wiring must be seriously defective, because while that was an interesting post and story, it didn't help me get any closer on my quest for understanding.

I am pretty certain it is my wiring, and not your efforts (how many other people are wired this way, I wonder?). I think I just have a higher burden of proof than most people here, so I will be forever stymied in my effort to "get it." With that, and not wanting to create animosity here, I won't press this anymore. I'm resigned to never getting it, I'm afraid. So, thanks for all who have helped. I do appreciate it.

You're welcome. Best of luck..

MLEN · #28 27th October 2009, 05:15 PM

Hi trustgod,

"Here's a question for you. One that pretty much sums up the whole gist of what where I'm at right now. I am one who relies overwhelmingly on data, facts and concrete evidence for just about every big decision, and I mean everything. I researched flat-screen TV's for six months before buying one. I researched MP3 players for a couple months. I study cereal boxes before purchasing. I've "researched" God for over 8 years. Every decision I make is not made before I have all the facts in hand. Note, this doesn't apply to simple pleasures, like which bag of cookies to raid, but I think you get the gist of how I make decisions."

By your above statement, it's clear to tell that you are extremely analytical. If you haven't yet (or don't do so on a regular basis), I advise that one thing you can do to develop a closer, personal view of God is to spend some time out in nature. By this I mean, literally - outside in nature observing and studying birds, worms, butterflies, lilies, the ocean, etc. - you name it, the sky's the limit. This may seem silly at first, but God tells us over and over in many parts of the Bible how nature reflects him, his creative powers and his care for even the smallest of his creations. It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness.

I have learned many precious lessons about God and his love for me that have made me "see" God spiritually and has lead me into such a real relationship with him.

I hope this makes sense to you and I pray that you will try it as you seek to build a relationship with the God in whom you believe.

trustgod · #29 27th October 2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by MLEN

Hi trustgod,

By your above statement, it's clear to tell that you are extremely analytical. If you haven't yet (or don't do so on a regular basis), I advise that one thing you can do to develop a closer, personal view of God is to spend some time out in nature. By this I mean, literally - outside in nature observing and studying birds, worms, butterflies, lilies, the ocean, etc. - you name it, the sky's the limit. This may seem silly at first, but God tells us over and over in many parts of the Bible how nature reflects him, his creative powers and his care for even the smallest of his creations.

I actually spend a lot of time outdoors, in various activities. Walking, hiking, camping, etc. And I can see the work of God. BUT, that doesn't help me one iota in understanding what a personal relationship with God is like, or anything about faith. It just confirms what I kind of already know -- that God exists. That's not the issue.

Originally Posted by MLEN

It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness.

What confirms this?

Originally Posted by MLEN

I have learned many precious lessons about God and his love for me that have made me "see" God spiritually and has lead me into such a real relationship with him.

How? That's the $64,000 question I want answered. How does one go from believing God exists, to having faith in him and a relationship with him? Believing he exists and then having faith in him are two extremely different things in my opinion, but it seems so many here say they're one and the same. I respectfully disagree.

MLEN · #30 27th October 2009, 10:04 PM

Hi trustgod,

After I wrote my last post, I realize that I have not asked if you already knew that that the Bible states that no one can come to the Father God accept through Jesus Christ his son? And that we do this by confessing that we have sins and that we believe/accept that Jesus died on the cross for our sins in order that we may have eternal life.

Have you ever said this prayer of confession and acceptance? For this is the very first and most important step in having a relationship with God.