They both sound a lot better in theory, than they actually work in reality.
__________________ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. --- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
They both sound a lot better in theory, than they actually work in reality.
"Collectivism" is a rather catch-all term, care to be a little more specific?
__________________
Even Now In Heaven There Are Angels Carrying Savage Weapons
Chairs thrown and tables toppled,
Hands armed with broken bottles,
Standing no chance to win but,
We're not running, we're not running.
Black eyes, broken fingers,
Blood drips and I let it run
down my lips into my swollen gums.
When hope is non-existent,
Our instincts all scream "Run",
We never turn our backs or even bite our tongues.
Basically, they look the same, but the motives and benefits of each are different... but looking at them from the outside... they look the same.
__________________ A place to spend my quiet nights
Time to unwind
So much pressure in this life of mine
I cry at times
I once contemplated suicide
And woulda tried
But when I held that nine
All I could see was my mama's eyes
No one knows my struggle
They only see the trouble
Not knowing it's hard to carry on when no one loves you
Okay, to put the question into other words, do any ppl here consider brotherhood a form of collectivism?
Not me.
tulc(that was pretty easy)
__________________ So much has been said and sung of beautiful young girls,
why don't somebody wake up to the beauty of old women?
-Harriet Beecher Stowe
To hold the same views at forty as we held at twenty is to have been stupefied for a score of years and to take rank, not as a prophet, but as an unteachable brat, well birched and none the wiser.
- Robert Louis Stevenson
The main doctrine of a fanatic's creed is that his enemies are enemies of God.
-Andrew White
We've all been conditioned to think of love as the heart-pounding,
breathless passion of the young -- not the complex feelings shared by two
time-ravaged people who spend afternoons holding hands, as a defense against
loneliness, disease and death.
-Kate Zernike
Okay, to put the question into other words, do any ppl here consider brotherhood a form of collectivism?
I consider brotherhood to be hard-wired into human reproductive biology. If one set of parents has multiple male offspring, then, viola! You have brotherhood. Families are the simplest collective. If you are an Objectivist, and you consider collectivism to be evil, this means ipso facto you consider the family evil. This is why I don't give much credence to Objectivism, since it contradicts human biology. Where ideologies conflict with physical reality, the ideology usually ends up the bug on the windshield.
If you are not an Objectivist, your mileage may vary.
__________________ NOTE: To posts seriously comparing Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler, I respond only with pictures of cute, fuzzy animals.
I consider brotherhood to be hard-wired into human reproductive biology. If one set of parents has multiple male offspring, then, viola! You have brotherhood. Families are the simplest collective. If you are an Objectivist, and you consider collectivism to be evil, this means ipso facto you consider the family evil. This is why I don't give much credence to Objectivism, since it contradicts human biology. Where ideologies conflict with physical reality, the ideology usually ends up the bug on the windshield.
If you are not an Objectivist, your mileage may vary.
"Collectivism does not preach sacrifice as a temporary means to some desirable end. Sacrifice is its end—sacrifice as a way of life. It is man’s independence, success, prosperity, and happiness that collectivists wish to destroy.
Observe the snarling, hysterical hatred with which they greet any suggestion that sacrifice is not necessary, that a non-sacrificial society is possible to men, that it is the only society able to achieve man’s well-being." Ayn Rand
At least now you can finally say you have actually read something she wrote. Hmm...you know. It is almost like she had certain people in mind when she wrote that quote.
__________________ The precept: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” . . . is an abdication of moral responsibility: it is a moral blank check one gives to others in exchange for a moral blank check one expects for oneself. . .The moral principle to adopt in this issue, is: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.”
-Ayn Rand
"Collectivism does not preach sacrifice as a temporary means to some desirable end. Sacrifice is its end—sacrifice as a way of life. It is man’s independence, success, prosperity, and happiness that collectivists wish to destroy.
Observe the snarling, hysterical hatred with which they greet any suggestion that sacrifice is not necessary, that a non-sacrificial society is possible to men, that it is the only society able to achieve man’s well-being." Ayn Rand
At least now you can finally say you have actually read something she wrote. Hmm...you know. It is almost like she had certain people in mind when she wrote that quote.
And examples of these societies where no one ever does anything altruistic and everyone is happy are...
Oh, that's right. Objectivism has never actually been practiced on even a tribal scale in the real world.
This is the real world. You'll have to provide a better argument than a quote from a science fiction novel.
__________________ NOTE: To posts seriously comparing Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler, I respond only with pictures of cute, fuzzy animals.
And examples of these societies where no one ever does anything altruistic and everyone is happy are...
How did you derive that statement from the quote I posted?
Oh, that's right. Objectivism has never actually been practiced on even a tribal scale in the real world.
Is that your way of refuting that quote or is this just your usual non sequitur?
This is the real world. You'll have to provide a better argument than a quote from a science fiction novel.
That quote is from a non fiction essay. Want more?
"Collectivism holds that the individual has no rights, that his life and work belong to the group . . . and that the group may sacrifice him at its own whim to its own interests. The only way to implement a doctrine of that kind is by means of brute force—and statism has always been the political corollary of collectivism." Ayn Rand
Since you continue to belittle and misrepresent Ayn Rand and Objectivism, maybe the best way to deal with you is this sort of cut and paste response. Since your argument is with her, I should just let her argue back. On second thought, that is too much effort. The ignore button is much simpler and was probably designed for people like you. So, if you plan to launch into one of your timeless rants, save your energy, I wont see it.
__________________ The precept: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” . . . is an abdication of moral responsibility: it is a moral blank check one gives to others in exchange for a moral blank check one expects for oneself. . .The moral principle to adopt in this issue, is: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.”
-Ayn Rand
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