Brotherhood and collectivism?

libertarianSkeptic747 · #21 2nd November 2009, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by TheNewWorldMan

And examples of these societies where no one ever does anything altruistic and everyone is happy are...

Oh, that's right. Objectivism has never actually been practiced on even a tribal scale in the real world.

This is the real world. You'll have to provide a better argument than a quote from a science fiction novel.

Haha, this is quite hilarious and sarcastic, since we have loads of societies at hand built on slacky versions of lord of the rings.

libertarianSkeptic747 · #22 2nd November 2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by nolongerhome

We sacrifice for it, we pay a levy and taxes, but we end up with a safety net of health care for all of the people in the country.

I don live in Australia but there is a few things I heard:
Long queue.
Doctors pose quite an attitude toward patients.
Doctors try their best to see as less people as possible per day.
The private sector is not banned in Australia so the rich still have their advantage.

libertarianSkeptic747 · #23 2nd November 2009, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by TheNewWorldMan

Except that billions of people around the world happily do things for others, with no guns pointed at them or other threats. Look at Mother Teresa--someone must have been torturing her, eh?

How many Mother Teresa are their?

I personally find this kinda things propagandistic. Like comerade Lei Feng or Molotov's bread basket.

What if Mother Teresa doesn't do those things? There wouldn't be a voice telling her "you are going to heck!"?

Originally Posted by TheNewWorldMan

All Objectivism is anyway is a fig leaf the wealthy elite came up with to try and justify their own selfishness, greed and exploitation of others. An effort to brainwash the serfs into thinking they deserve their lot in life because the rich are somehow better than they are. Well, I know a load of self-serving hooey when I smell it, and Objectivism is it.

Where do all those wealthy elite came from? His rich daddy? Where did those ppl come from then?

When talking about fig leaf, Christianity most certainly posses the most. And slavery—almost every church in every country in connected with economic injustice.

libertarianSkeptic747 · #24 2nd November 2009, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by TheNewWorldMan

You have to keep in mind that Objectivism is inherently extremist. It really is a cult-like ideology, in that Ayn Rand held she was 100% correct about everything. No room for compromise or seeing any value in any viewpoint whatsoever save her own. And this unswerving, fanatical loyalty to an idea that has never been tried on any scale in the real world.

I would like to see evidence of your claim. Which part reveals to you as extreme.

Verv · #25 12th November 2009, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by libertarianSkeptic747

Hi all,
I want to know your thoughts on this issue. Especially those of you who self-identified as rightwing.

Are the two completely different? Or they share certain thing, but still quite different? Or are they essentially the same?

My opinions on the right wing, as a neo-conservative:

Brotherhood and collectivism are different.

Brotherhood/sisterhood is the sense of community that moves us to help one another and band together; brotherhood is me lending my neighbor some money, or babysitting for a very cheap price (if any); it is also doing some charitable work.

Brotherhood is also young men and women of a country signing up to fight against foreign invaders and foreign threats to keep it free.

Collectivism is when you have no choice to do any of these, and sometimes it makes no sense at all: you will pay all of these taxes to support people who are even abusing the help they get, and you will be forced to serve in the military even if we are using it for foul purposes or do not properly compensate you your losses.

Of course, those are bias views of both, but we did ask for a right wing opinion, didn't we?