Bible says muslim suicide bomber and atheist may go to heaven??

RMDY · #21 30th October 2009, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

I dont see the contradiction

Romans 2 : 14( because they are Muslim and have always been taught false things and have never heard the truth )

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands--remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."
Eph 2:11-12

Carey · #22 30th October 2009, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by RMDY

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands--remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."
Eph 2:11-12

I still dont see a contradiction.

I dont see the contradiction

Romans 2 : 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,( because they are Muslim and have always been taught false things and have never heard the truth ) do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

RMDY · #23 30th October 2009, 12:36 AM

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

The Muslim 'holy' book teaches against the core of the christian faith: the death and resurrection of Jesus, thus teaching against the faith that Jesus came for the forgivness of sins. This is supressing the truth, for it denies the righteousness of God that comes by faith in Jesus Christ.

Without the new covenant, muslims are separated from the new covenant of promise, having no hope and are without God.

Carey · #24 30th October 2009, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by RMDY

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

The Muslim 'holy' book teaches against the core of the christian faith: the death and resurrection of Jesus, thus teaching against the faith that Jesus came for the forgivness of sins. This is supressing the truth, for it denies the righteousness of God that comes by faith in Jesus Christ.

Without the new covenant, muslims are separated from the new covenant of promise, having no hope and are without God.

I dont see the contradiction

Romans 2 : 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,( because they are Muslim and have always been taught false things and have never heard the truth ) do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Matthew 7 : 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

RMDY · #25 30th October 2009, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

I dont see the contradiction

(Act 17:30) The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, (Luk 24:47) and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations.

(Act 11:18) When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life."

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Carey · #26 30th October 2009, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by RMDY

(Act 17:30) The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, (Luk 24:47) and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations.

(Act 11:18) When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life."

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

How can someone repent for not believing in something they never learned about to believe in??

RMDY · #27 30th October 2009, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

How can someone repent for not believing in something they never learned about to believe in??

How can their sins be atoned for if they do not have the Law of Moses or Jesus?

freeport · #28 30th October 2009, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

Romans 2 : 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

That has nothing to do with claiming that people will go to Heaven regardless of their deeds. You are assuming a suicide bomber and atheist have no internal voices condemning them.

In reality, people don't tend to talk about such things.

That is not the point of that verse.

The point is everyone is under Law, as made plain by Moses, made conscious by Moses. In the Law is made conscious the fullness of the knowledge of Good and Evil, from the Tree of Knowledge.

They die and will be punished for sins because they do not believe. Regardless, it may be that they might later be saved, after a period of punishment as one sees "death and Hell" destroyed in Revelation... and God has said that He will relent when people repent. (Such as what is seen in the Book of Jonah.)

Wicked Willow · #29 30th October 2009, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by RMDY

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands--remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."
Eph 2:11-12

That epistle reminds the Gentiles how they felt prior to learning the Good News - namely that they were already saved, with God extending his hand to them: they were without God in the world.
Christianity is not about earning salvation - it's about celebrating the same to the fullest extent.

Wicked Willow · #30 30th October 2009, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by RMDY

How can their sins be atoned for if they do not have the Law of Moses or Jesus?

Do you conceive of God as a petty legalist? It doesn't take the Mosaic law to figure out that murdering your neighbour isn't exactly a splendid idea. As a social species, most of us have a pretty good grasp of that concept on our own.