Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
The problem with time travel is, if it becomes possible in the future it has already been done now.
Yes, it is being done as we speak, has been done, and will be done in our future. But not by us! At least not by us still in the temporal state! let me know if I ran that by you too fast.
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
If time travel in the quantum field is accepted, why would anyone want to do the peer review thingie?
Because without "the peer review thingie" people are going to consider the proponents utter lunatics, and their theories, garbage, whereas if they got them published in a peer-reviewed physics journal, they might be considered scientific.
Originally Posted by dad
Maybe if this was 1939 we may need to go there. All we need to do now is deal with it.
Ok, then get it into a peer-review journal and then we'll "deal with it"
Originally Posted by dad
Besides I have more than one article.
I think you are bluffing, and they are worthless unless there is a peer-reviewed source backing them up, anyways.
Originally Posted by dad
Maybe you would do well to focus on a point, do you have one?
Yes. How about this. Your source is worthless. This time travel thing isn't real. Its a cute hypothesis, but until its actually tested and verified and published, we aren't going to bother dealing with it.
Because without "the peer review thingie" people are going to consider the proponents utter lunatics, and their theories, garbage, whereas if they got them published in a peer-reviewed physics journal, they might be considered scientific.
Ok, then get it into a peer-review journal and then we'll "deal with it"
I think you are bluffing, and they are worthless unless there is a peer-reviewed source backing them up, anyways.
Yes. How about this. Your source is worthless. This time travel thing isn't real. Its a cute hypothesis, but until its actually tested and verified and published, we aren't going to bother dealing with it.
Well, are you somewhat familiar with things quantum? I have no idea why you would seem to question the whole thing. Now, let's be clear, I do not believe time travel will be possible for humans in this universe. What we are talking about here are things on the quantum level...follow?
Now, certain ideas from the quantum world have been accepted. Yet the weirdness can't be explained by present state physics and laws. Attempts have been made, but, as the topic of this thread suggests, they cannot get to the bottom of it using temporary state present science. Why? Because any time travel of the quantum world involves a different state future and past! That means it will look weird here in the present, using a present only reference point.
If you can follow that, yet doubt it, have a gander at this.
"For the second time in as many months, images gathered by the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) are raising questions about the structures of time and gravity, and the fabric of space. Using two HST images, astronomers from Italy and Germany looked for but did not find evidence supporting a prevailing scientific theory that says time, space and gravity are composed of tiny [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]quantum[/color][/color] bits.
Using existing theories, the team led by Dr. Roberto Ragazzoni from the Astrophysical Observatory of Arcetri, Italy, and the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy in Heidelberg, Germany, calculated that infinitesimally small quantum-scale variations in space time would blur images of galaxies seen from vast distances across the universe. Instead, when they looked at both diffraction patterns from a [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]supernova[/color][/color] and the raw image of a second galaxy more than five billion light years from Earth, they saw images much sharper than should be possible if quantum-scale phenomenon operated as previously supposed."
It was a magnetic quench; happens with superconducting magnets. I've seen it happen to a 500 MHz NMR, lots of noise, lots of condensing water vapour in the air. No need to evoke any type of time travel, it's just some part of the magnet stopped being superconducting leading to heating, which when you have a load of liquid He/N2 tends to be a bad thing.
__________________ When I die, they will put my body in a box and dispose of it in the cold ground.
And in all the million ages to come, I will never breathe or laugh or twitch again.
So won't you run and play with me here among the
teeming mass of humanity?
The universe has spared us this moment.
Last edited by TemperateSeaIsland; 20th October 2009 at 07:34 AM.
So is everything to do with the weirdness of the quantum world.
No, it is not! Not true time, only temporal state time, interwoven in the fabric of this temporal state universe.
No! Only space and time in the fabric of the temporary universe. Any time travel in the quantum field beyond that temporal state would involve the eternal state! That is the amazing thing.
Well - I'm not talking about imaginary time. It's easy to weave incoherent fantasies about time, but they make no sense whatsoever.
Eternity, like infinity, is a concept utterly beyond comprehension. Similar to much of the stuff I see in your posts, actually.
As my friend used to tell me when I was a religious apologist:
If you think about it, you aren't saying much. 'we can't give it the power of..' well, unless you know what it is you can't do anything but see a bit how it works here in this state universe no less.
And yet that seems to me exactly what you're doing - claiming that time-travelling quantum particles have such long temporal reach they influence back into your different state past - which as I keep saying, doesn't seem likely because while quantum objects can do weird things in space and time they still have a limited range in which they can do so.
Thank you, that's all I meant. If the LHC is having problems getting it up, to find the god particle, maybe it is God that is playing with em..
Except...why in the world would God want to do that? There is nothing dodgy about the LHC and what it intends to do.
Well, you already agreed that time travel is involved.
Yikes, well spotted! I agree, I gave two conflicting statements there and I apologise for it. If it helps clear things up, I'm still not sold on the idea of time-travelling particles - and I definitely don't think it applies to the LHC meltdown.
That is pretty useful a coordinate, I would think!
That said, I didn't specifically state it was involved in the examples I gave. No need to invoke something extraneous to a simpler explanation.
What a present state observer thinks is imaginary, apparently just refers to things out of this state, that all they can do is try to slap a number on!! The end result is not imaginary, such as in entagled particles, from what I can gather, but quite real.
Er....no - the imaginary quantities I was referring to are usually things that do exist in the present, like a phase term. Or to give a practical example, reactance in an electrical circuit, which is the phase of the resistance in an AC circuit. It exists in the present only - it's just easier to write it mathematically using the number i. No need to invoke an additional universe to explain it.
My point was, I'm not convinced all these notions of quantum objects time travelling actually involve time travel or if it's just a case of taking the math a bit too literally. I mean, antimatter can be represented as regular matter travelling backwards in time, and we can represent it as such using abstract Feynman diagrams - but we can still clearly see antiparticles that behave identically to their equivalent particles from our perspective of moving forward in time.
No, I agree. I think that they were grasping, with that interpretation. But remember God made time, and is a time traveler. His wheel flying vehicle that hovered over Ezekiel was a time machine among other things. The spirit of God hovered over the earth, or sea at creation, so if He was in His flying wheels at the time, that means the ship is older than anything in this universe.
My question is - why would God even need one, assuming God even has a ship/time machine (definitely a unique take on it there) and that it exists. And why would it matter how old it was? We're talking about an infinite immortal omnipotent being. Why would you use age to describe him or his attributes?
And the fact that God time travels (omnipotent, so why not, although that does leave some rather troubling theological questions) doesn't mean he has to be invoked to explain quantum objects time travelling. Lightning is a result of a cloud-ground capacitance discharging - not God being displeased with us mortals.
Well, maybe explain that a bit more simply for those in the audience that may be somewhat unfamiliar with the concepts..? If it was clocked at 10,000 times the speed of light, something moved a lot faster than light! I would NOT expect present light to be able to move faster than present light. But I would expect light in the future or former universe to move a lot faster than present light. So, whe quantum effects we see are barely at pace with the other time of universe. Let me know if I need to slow this down a bit for ya..
Slow it down? I thought you just asked me for a simpler explanation?
What I meant is, the photons in the experiment described in the article you cited were travelling away from each other at the speed of light - however, my point is that the effects of the entanglement (correlation)between them acted faster than the speed of light, not (as I thought your quote implied) that the speed of light itself was changing. Additionally, I've done some entanglement studies before and as far as I can tell no time-travel has yet been invoked to explain it.
So the quantum effects wouldn't necessarily be at a different pace in a different state past just because the speed of light is different - because the speed of the entangled objects has no effect on the entanglement itself.
__________________ ____________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Yes, it is being done as we speak, has been done, and will be done in our future. But not by us! At least not by us still in the temporal state! let me know if I ran that by you too fast.
Sadly not fast enough, it's pure unadulterated garbage, dad, are you an alcoholic or an ex-alcoholic? forgive the question but I am looking for a reason why your brain always seems so addled.
It was a magnetic quench; happens with superconducting magnets. I've seen it happen to a 500 MHz NMR, lots of noise, lots of condensing water vapour in the air. No need to evoke any type of time travel, it's just some part of the magnet stopped being superconducting leading to heating, which when you have a load of liquid He/N2 tends to be a bad thing.
"It" may be as you say. Then again, the renegade theoretical physicists might have something. Then again, it may be something else. But since "it" is not the point of the thread, who really cares?
That article and another was given as a background, to show that time in the quantum world appears to be no limit as it is in the standard physics.
If you want to disagree that there is any possible time connection in QM, be our guest.
I doubt you would try that. So, here we are, with a weirdness that can better be explained by our present nature actually being what is weird.
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
Sadly not fast enough, it's pure unadulterated garbage, dad, are you an alcoholic or an ex-alcoholic? forgive the question but I am looking for a reason why your brain always seems so addled.
Ignorant presumption and personal incredulity cannot diminish some biblical realities. It is there, that we see the veil lifted somewhat, and learn that the great "I AM" (Jesus) was here before the world began, before Abraham, and will be here in the future forever as well. There are countless billions of others with Him, and will be even more. All of them will be as He is, in that they have a spiritual also body that lasts forever.
Nothing addled about a brain that reads what the bible says. It is pure unadulterated garbage to pretend to know otherwise. Certainly from what we know from science, no one is in any position to question that the present universe fabric that includes time as we know it, is temporal.
Chug that one down.
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
Well - I'm not talking about imaginary time. It's easy to weave incoherent fantasies about time, but they make no sense whatsoever.
Eternity, like infinity, is a concept utterly beyond comprehension. Similar to much of the stuff I see in your posts, actually....
I actually write quite simply, so it would not be an inability to grasp my posts, but a pre conceived set of notions that you can't let go of, that keep you from the prize.
Glad you admit that eternity doesn't make sense here in this state universe, why would it, if it is temporal? The universe is unfolding as it should. Until the day it folds up forever, and the new ones are here!
If the time traversing quantum waves were supposed to make sense within this temporal universe, then they would not be weird, would they?
Bottom line, is all that makes it weird, is a present only universe state basis of observation! Everything is relative.
..But not to THIS universe!
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
Linear Mode
