| Christian Apologetics A forum to discuss the systematic defense of the Christian belief system with other Christians. |
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6th November 2009, 01:21 PM
|  | elman
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Reps: 31,654,610,401,511,400 (power: 31,654,610,401,542) | | Originally Posted by chaela  Elman, you need to pay closer attention to what's being said. Please see my response on this issue (post #220).
Scripture does refer to us as "clay". This isn't a bad thing. If it hurts the ego to be reminded of it, I cannot help that. But it shouldn't hurt at all to know that one is an extension and an expression of God's glorious creation. . .
Clay is not a bad thing. Clay that can love is a better thing. It is more of an expression of God's glorious creation.
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I believe in a loving Creator who created us for the purpose of being capable of receiving and responding to the love of the Creator. Our first gift of life is temporary. If we attempt to fulfill our purpose of loving others, we have the hope of receiving a second gift of eternal life. There is no pain in the after life. If we do not receive the second gift, we are simply left with the first gift and will not exist after we die. |
6th November 2009, 02:12 PM
|  | rescued by Shyamasundara
  
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Reps: 558,707,763,218,111,424 (power: 558,707,763,218,119) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 Public opinion does not dictate what is and is not evidence. Precisely! 
.
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6th November 2009, 06:24 PM
|  | Contributor
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Reps: 294,981,184,141,909,888 (power: 294,981,184,141,920) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 And that made them wrong somehow?
.... in the same way that all those who thought the Earth was flat were wrong back then.
While most of us are quite ready to accept the idea of a round Earth it seems we are reluctant to leave the flat earth theology of the past. So I should just ignore the bits about Jesus being the savior, and God, and...
That's your call. No, we must have all the answers! We know the Guy who knows it all, so we must know!
The guy who knows it all may well know it all but he ain't telling - we have to work it out ourselves. I guess I'm just too used to apologetics where I need to have some sort of rational explanation... Helps to get away every now and then.
I don't think so. What we, as Christians, need to do is to drag ourselves along with our theology and apologetics into the 21st century.
I accept this is fraught with danger. But then the Apostles were is a similar boat - they had no idea how their new found faith would develop - it could have easily gone the other way. But that does not mean we rest on their laurels. We need to make our own faith statement in light of 21st century possibilities. It's a whole new ball game - well almost a whole new ball game.
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6th November 2009, 06:36 PM
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Reps: 294,981,184,141,909,888 (power: 294,981,184,141,920) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 Faith is based in fact. Faith is not blind. Hebrews 11:1, faith has a foundation: John 20:30-31. There's plenty of evidence for God, just not enough for complete certainty.
There's that word again certainty.
What is about this generation that keeps seeking 'certainty'?
The money market (whatever that may be) apparently wants some 'certainty'.
Business seeks 'certainty'.
The whole matter of the 'climate skeptics' is that there is no 'certainty' of outcomes.
Otherwise sane and rational people claim they cannot believe in God because there is no 'certainty' of his existence.
Columbus would never have sailed across the ocean and bumped into something called America if he had 'certainty'.
Yet we demand 'certainty' about God.
The rather glaring and obvious situation is that there is no such thing as 'certainty' - life is chancy and precarious. Yet we continually demand 'certainty'. Interesting.
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8th November 2009, 06:12 PM
|  | Urban Nomad. Literally.
  
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Reps: 416,617,700,174,524,864 (power: 416,617,700,174,543) | | Originally Posted by wayseer There's that word again certainty.
What is about this generation that keeps seeking 'certainty'?
The money market (whatever that may be) apparently wants some 'certainty'.
Business seeks 'certainty'.
The whole matter of the 'climate skeptics' is that there is no 'certainty' of outcomes.
Otherwise sane and rational people claim they cannot believe in God because there is no 'certainty' of his existence.
Columbus would never have sailed across the ocean and bumped into something called America if he had 'certainty'.
Yet we demand 'certainty' about God.
The rather glaring and obvious situation is that there is no such thing as 'certainty' - life is chancy and precarious. Yet we continually demand 'certainty'. Interesting.
There's not complete certainty for anything.
Originally Posted by wayseer .... in the same way that all those who thought the Earth was flat were wrong back then.
While most of us are quite ready to accept the idea of a round Earth it seems we are reluctant to leave the flat earth theology of the past.
Were they interpreting the Bible, or just using it as a way to bash an idea they didn't like?
You're the one making the argument. You tell me. What should I do with this 'information' you presented?
The guy who knows it all may well know it all but he ain't telling - we have to work it out ourselves.
Have you no sense of humor?
I don't think so. What we, as Christians, need to do is to drag ourselves along with our theology and apologetics into the 21st century.
The Bible wasn't written in this century. It was written 2000 years ago, and things weren't very relative back then.
I accept this is fraught with danger. But then the Apostles were is a similar boat - they had no idea how their new found faith would develop - it could have easily gone the other way. But that does not mean we rest on their laurels. We need to make our own faith statement in light of 21st century possibilities. It's a whole new ball game - well almost a whole new ball game.
The theology of the Bible doesn't change just because society changes. Making the Bible relative is never a good idea.
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
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8th November 2009, 07:15 PM
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Reps: 294,981,184,141,909,888 (power: 294,981,184,141,920) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 The Bible wasn't written in this century. It was written 2000 years ago, and things weren't very relative back then.
I would argue they were just as relevant - historically relevant. The theology of the Bible doesn't change just because society changes. Making the Bible relative is never a good idea.
I suggest the theology of Bible has changed - dramatically in some instance - like Nicaea (325).
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8th November 2009, 07:20 PM
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Reps: 416,617,700,174,524,864 (power: 416,617,700,174,543) | | Originally Posted by wayseer I would argue they were just as relevant - historically relevant.
I'm not talking relevant or irrelevant, I'm talking whether or not it is relative.
I suggest the theology of Bible has changed - dramatically in some instance - like Nicaea (325).
Then provide evidence for your suggestion.
__________________ Originally Posted by CaliforniaJosiah
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
NO ONE is mandated to agree with anyone. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
8th November 2009, 07:44 PM
| | Contributor
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Reps: 294,981,184,141,909,888 (power: 294,981,184,141,920) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 I'm not talking relevant or irrelevant, I'm talking whether or not it is relative.
Of course - otherwise why would you want to raise the matter? Then provide evidence for your suggestion.
I did. Nicaea.
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8th November 2009, 07:53 PM
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Reps: 416,617,700,174,524,864 (power: 416,617,700,174,543) | | Originally Posted by wayseer Of course - otherwise why would you want to raise the matter?
I did. Nicaea.
Simply naming some council doesn't tell me how the theology contained in the Bible has been changed.
__________________ Originally Posted by CaliforniaJosiah
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
NO ONE is mandated to agree with anyone. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
8th November 2009, 08:00 PM
| | Contributor
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Reps: 294,981,184,141,909,888 (power: 294,981,184,141,920) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 Simply naming some council doesn't tell me how the theology contained in the Bible has been changed.
Now I happen to know you are more intelligent than that.
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