| Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate A subforum where WOF and non-WOF may discuss their different theological ideas. |
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3rd November 2009, 01:06 PM
|  | Just A Fool For Christ
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Reps: 45,908,654,598,964,848 (power: 45,908,654,598,974) | | | Romans 10:9-10, That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus Christ, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
This verse has been quoted alot throughout this thread, and while I agree that this is a good example of how a person can come to the Lord it also highlights the possibly problems with the Sinners Prayer.
Forget the confess with your mouth bit for a while, Its the second part that I want to focus on "Believe in your Heart", Now non of us can truely say what is in someones heart, we might hazzard a guess by there actions and motives but thats about as far as we could go, Only God truely knows what is in someones heart.
So this is the problem then with the sinners prayers, it focusses more on the confession not the heart, and if you are in a big eveangilistic rally you have the added pressure of hype, so people could be saying the prayer as requested from the front but not truely believing in there heart. but as mentioned earlier we will never truely know a persons heart.
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"Walk without blemish".
You will, of course, fail to live without blemish;
but failing is quite different from not even trying.
For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary.
For those who do not believe in God, no explanation is possible.
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4th November 2009, 10:26 AM
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Reps: 17,214,311,476,182,840 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Magentic  Sin of the world is the old nature, sins are daily deeds. Is that what you're trying to say?
for instance the above verse from heatherfb is misquoted as sin when it should read sins
1 Jn 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
There only sin was the one of adam and eve. The rest all fall into place because that the nature that was past down. Nail the frist the rest will fall. |
4th November 2009, 10:27 AM
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Reps: 17,214,311,476,182,840 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by he4rty Romans 10:9-10, That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus Christ, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
This verse has been quoted alot throughout this thread, and while I agree that this is a good example of how a person can come to the Lord it also highlights the possibly problems with the Sinners Prayer.
Forget the confess with your mouth bit for a while, Its the second part that I want to focus on "Believe in your Heart", Now non of us can truely say what is in someones heart, we might hazzard a guess by there actions and motives but thats about as far as we could go, Only God truely knows what is in someones heart.
So this is the problem then with the sinners prayers, it focusses more on the confession not the heart, and if you are in a big eveangilistic rally you have the added pressure of hype, so people could be saying the prayer as requested from the front but not truely believing in there heart. but as mentioned earlier we will never truely know a persons heart.
I think you need to read the ver. before this. How do you think it got in the heart and mouth? Do you actually believe it was the preacher and not the help mate that put it there?
Last edited by enoch son; 4th November 2009 at 10:43 AM.
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4th November 2009, 06:29 PM
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Reps: 17,214,311,476,182,840 (power: 0) | | | I study out the word if in ver. 10 and in the greek it reads like "IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME" to me. |
5th November 2009, 04:34 AM
| | Just A Fool For Christ
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Reps: 45,908,654,598,964,848 (power: 45,908,654,598,974) | | Originally Posted by enoch son I think you need to read the ver. before this. How do you think it got in the heart and mouth? Do you actually believe it was the preacher and not the help mate that put it there?
I have and what I'm getting at is this......
In a big rally with lots of people and a call of confession coming from the front its possible that people could recite the sinners pray but the words are empty and meaningless because they have not truely believed in there heart.
Then they could leave in a false belief that they have been saved.
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Walk without blemish".
You will, of course, fail to live without blemish;
but failing is quite different from not even trying.
For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary.
For those who do not believe in God, no explanation is possible.
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5th November 2009, 10:09 PM
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| | Join Date: 7th January 2004 Location: kansas
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Reps: 17,214,311,476,182,840 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by he4rty I have and what I'm getting at is this......
In a big rally with lots of people and a call of confession coming from the front its possible that people could recite the sinners pray but the words are empty and meaningless because they have not truely believed in there heart.
Then they could leave in a false belief that they have been saved.
thats the point it not them but the word that has been place within them that does the confression. It's not about God hearing what He all ready knows it's about the man hearing from his owen lips to his ears what god has placed in his heart. |
6th November 2009, 08:51 AM
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Reps: 610,632,165,073,638,144 (power: 610,632,165,073,670) | | Originally Posted by KingZzub *****
very strange theology indeed.
***** Hmmmm.
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__________________ An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. ~Pierre Beaumarchais |
6th November 2009, 09:08 AM
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Reps: 610,632,165,073,638,144 (power: 610,632,165,073,670) | | I listened to the video. Why was the guy shouting at his congregation? That’s just as much a technique as the sinner’s prayer he denounces. Yelling is not anointing. IMO, shouting into a microphone is more performance and posturing than real proclamation of the Good News. Personally, though, I am not a big fan of the “sinner’s prayer” method of chalking up converts. I used to use it a lot but discovered over the years that it did not “seal the deal” like it was supposed to … too many people who recited it just never followed through. Regeneration is a deeper work than a simple recited prayer can accomplish. ~Jim I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~C.S. Lewis
__________________ An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. ~Pierre Beaumarchais |
6th November 2009, 09:44 AM
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Reps: 674,058,719,418,024,320 (power: 674,058,719,418,037) | | Originally Posted by JimB I listened to the video. Why was the guy shouting at his congregation? That’s just as much a technique as the sinner’s prayer he denounces. Yelling is not anointing. IMO, shouting into a microphone is more performance and posturing than real proclamation of the Good News.
It's just the way he preaches at times, not at all times though. IMO, proclaiming the Good News could be done with all types of vigor or even the most monotone and dull voice imaginable, because it is the Spirit that works to convict through the substance of the words, not their volume. So loud or soft, its the message being delivered that's important, and I believe that was kind of the idea Paul was sending in Romans 10:6-12.
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I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Romans 16:17-18 |
6th November 2009, 10:16 AM
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Reps: 610,632,165,073,638,144 (power: 610,632,165,073,670) | | Originally Posted by FaultySurplus It's just the way he preaches at times, not at all times though. IMO, proclaiming the Good News could be done with all types of vigor or even the most monotone and dull voice imaginable, because it is the Spirit that works to convict through the substance of the words, not their volume. So loud or soft, its the message being delivered that's important, and I believe that was kind of the idea Paul was sending in Romans 10:6-12. I used to yell a lot into a microphone when I preached, too, because it was the custom of the day. Then a lady told me on one occasion that I could either yell or use a microphone but, please, not both and an old preacher once told me that if my message was not captivating enough then I should raise the volume and wake ‘em up, but if my message were captivating, I would not have to. ~Jim I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~C.S. Lewis
__________________ An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. ~Pierre Beaumarchais | | |
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