When are fellowship posts ruled as debate or offenses ag. congregational guidelines?

MariaRegina · #1 16th October 2009, 01:43 AM

Since TAW and OBOB have lost a lot of members in the last two years, many people from both TAW and OBOB post in both forums. Otherwise, it becomes very boring.

I have many friends in OBOB, and they encourage me to post in their forum because they feel outnumbered by the non-OBOB visitors, and so they do ask for my support.

I have been trying to address my posts individually to them so that my intent is clear as a fellowship post in support of my OBOB friends.

However, lately it is been very difficult especially with the influx of atheists and others into the congregational areas.

Whereas in TAW, we are more of a homogeneous group of people with the same respect for our unchanging Divine Liturgy and with no desire to change that Divine Liturgy, people in OBOB may have different liturgical understandings ranging from very liberal to ultra conservative.

So, hypothetically, if I post to support my friends who desire a devout liturgy with no liturgical dancers, those who like to see scantily clothed liturgical dancers may say that I am debating when I am simply agreeing with my OBOB friends who are opposed to the liturgical abuse they have seen.

Hypothetically, if an OBOBer who likes liturgical dancing were to report my post saying that it debates their preference for such liturgical dancing, could I be warned/infracted even if my language does not personally goad, inflame, or incite another one to anger?

flaglady · #2 16th October 2009, 09:50 PM

And interesting question. And all I can really do is quote the specific rule concerned

Congregation Forums
Forum members who are not a member of that denomination may not debate in that denomination's area. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

People often then say to us "but I wasn't debating or proselytizing" but that's not really the point. It's more a question of what is and is not in the other words.

Questions means honest questions, seeking after information about the faith and beliefs of others but debating the answers is not permitted.

Fellowship means "hi how are ya" or other such fluff posts.

By definition here, anything that is not a 'question' or 'fellowship' is deemed to be debate and/or proselytizing. Whether it either is or isn't is what the moderators are authorised to make a determination upon.

Sometimes it may seem a bit arbitrary they way we define such posts but we are also required to consider the intent or context of the post as well. Thus, should we decide that a post is actually inoffensive and was intended more as a fellowshippy kind of post, then we might not take action. On the other hand, if someone has taken exception and reported it, we might consider that person's pov as well. We'd go and read the thread and see what was going on.

In other words, I can't quite give you the 'yes or no' answer I suspect you might have hoped for but it's the best I can do. It's awfully difficult talking in hypotheticals! I hope it helps some though.

MariaRegina · #3 16th October 2009, 10:03 PM

What is really difficult, Jo, is seeing my Catholic friends getting so frustrated when Catholics who do not believe in the CCC or magisterium of the Catholic Church post in opposition.

In addition, their protestant and/or atheistic friends come in and take over threads. As a result, OBOB has become a battle ground, and several of my Catholic friends and even former mods have left. Others are threatening to leave. And they like my posts, give me reps, and send me PMs thanking me. However, I am running the risk of being reported every time I post in OBOB. I try to post carefully, but remembering to rephrase my post into a question format is difficult, especially when those non-magisterium Catholics are posting simply awful posts. My intention is good, and I think you realize that.

After all, I was a Catholic in good standing for 50 years, and so I feel like a big sister to my Catholic friends. I feel their pain.

FreeinChrist · #4 16th October 2009, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by MariaRegina

. In addition, their protestant and/or atheistic friends come in and take over threads. As a result, OBOB has become a battle ground, and several of my Catholic friends and even former mods have left. Others are threatening to leave.

I haven't seen reports made about protestant or atheistic folks taking over threads in OBOB. Perhaps you need to pm me the links.

And they like my posts, give me reps, and send me PMs thanking me. However, I am running the risk of being reported every time I post in OBOB. I try to post carefully, but remembering to rephrase my post into a question format is difficult, especially when those non-magesterium Catholics are posting simply awful posts. My intention is good, and I think you realize that.

After all, I was a Catholic in good standing for 50 years, and so I feel like a big sister to my Catholic friends. I feel their pain.[/quote]

flaglady · #5 17th October 2009, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by MariaRegina

I try to post carefully, but remembering to rephrase my post into a question format is difficult, especially when those non-magesterium Catholics are posting simply awful posts. My intention is good, and I think you realize that.

I think you should be careful about that. Wording your post into a question is not 'an honest' question, but merely trying to get around the rule which is brinking. An honest question would be "can you explain to me about XYZ of the Catholic faith because I want to understand how it affects my best friend". That kind of thing.

But I do understand your dilemma. It's a tough call.

MariaRegina · #6 17th October 2009, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by flaglady

I think you should be careful about that. Wording your post into a question is not 'an honest' question, but merely trying to get around the rule which is brinking. An honest question would be "can you explain to me about XYZ of the Catholic faith because I want to understand how it affects my best friend". That kind of thing.

But I do understand your dilemma. It's a tough call.

Thanks, Jo, I really did not fully understand CFs definition of brinking. I thought it meant seeing how far one could go without violating the rules and stretching the boundaries. That has never been my intention.

I like to communicate with my friends in OBOB, share common beliefs with them, and support them. Frankly, if they left, I might leave too. I would be torn.

And yes, it is a dilemma. Several of my Catholic friends here told me if I stopped posting in OBOB, then they would leave because there are so few people left in OBOB who are faithful to the magisterium.

Is there anyway that I could be declared to be a friend of OBOB and have dual posting privileges in OBOB and in TAW? Honestly, I do feel at home in either forum especially after spending 50 years as a cradle Catholic. This would not be an exception as Anhelyna already has set the precedent where she has dual posting privileges in OBOB and in TAW as a member of the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

Several years ago, I was voted in by the OBOB mods and allowed to have dual posting privileges in both OBOB and in TAW. I think I still have posting privileges in the Charismatic faith group too, but with all the forum changes, I do not know where it is now. Oh, I am also a member of the Apostolic Forum.

Michie · #7 17th October 2009, 01:50 AM

I can tell you as a longtime OBOB member that Maria has been a blessing to our forum. She was once Catholic & understands a lot of frustrations from some of us defending & standing by Church teachings.

We have has a bit of a problem with people coming in as Catholics yet debating Church teaching & even downgrading our clergy. Or.... the usual snarky snide commentary thats become so common in OBOB.

I'm sure there are many others that would agree with my regard for Maria.

She's never debated Church teachings. Has fellowship with us & simply given her opinion on current events.

We have many under the banner of Catholic that get away with basically anything because they claim Catholiism yet do not agree with Church teaching & argue it constantly.

As far as I'm concerned she has been an asset to the OBOB forum. She has never debated anything as far as Catholic belief is concerned & been a great alli to us.

And I for one, appreciate her presence there.

I'll be back to check on this thread later.

MariaRegina · #8 17th October 2009, 03:59 AM

Dear FreeinChrist,

The PM was sent complete with links. Enjoy!

In Christ,
Maria

FreeinChrist · #9 17th October 2009, 05:55 AM

If a person that identifies as Catholic teaches against Church doctrine, report it and explain how it is against Church doctrine if it is not obvious. For now, until the advisors approve the SOF, we go by the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a SOF. A nonCatholic who posts in agreement with Church teachings should not be considered a problem. What we are going for is for some openness as to who can post in the congregational forums but the posts cannot be against that congregations beliefs regardless of how a member identifies themselves.

Snarky comments about priests or bishops may be considered flaming - religious figures are included in the flaming rule.
But they have to be reported.

MariaRegina · #10 17th October 2009, 05:59 AM

Thank you very much. I like to have openness as it facilitates communication, but snarky comments destroy any attempts at meaningful communication.

p.s. Did you really go to Hawaii? I went last year to Hilo and Kona. It was wonderful.