NO IT DOES NOT And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
You want to convolute the issue and pretend that verse 10 invalidates the plain OROS of verse 9, fine, let's play that silly game:
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
By that logic, the beast from the sea rises with not 1, but with 5 (or is it 6) heads ALREADY DEAD. Makes no sense at all. Stick with God's Word, NJ.
Mountains were never alive. So whats your point? It does not matter that the kings are dead. The entire scene is taking place outside of time anyways. The angel clears says: There ARE seven kings, even though 5 are already dead. That does not negate that he still said it. It's dual meaning.
You're acting like the angel never mentioned 7 kings. He did. Then he mentioned an eighth and then went on to describe 10 more kings, none of whom Were even alive yet! And yet the horns are still there. And that's straight from God's Word. God bless.
Mountains were never alive. So whats your point? It does not matter that the kings are dead. The entire scene is taking place outside of time anyways. The angel clears says: There ARE seven kings, even though 5 are already dead. That does not negate that he still said it. It's dual meaning.
You're acting like the angel never mentioned 7 kings. He did. Then he mentioned an eighth and then went on to describe 10 more kings, none of whom Were even alive yet! And yet the horns are still there. And that's straight from God's Word. God bless.
The intrepretation is given FOR YOU. Heads = mountains. Horns = kings.
The beast rises with SEVEN heads, only ONE of which is "deadly wounded". Get it? Not 5 or 6, just ONE. In Daniel, the beasts are KINGDOMS, in Rev. this amalgamation of those beasts is a KINGDOM. A worldwide GOVERNMENT: The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Of course the 10 kings weren't alive yet, they share power "one hour" with the beast. That hour has not yet come, that's the point of prophecy, showing us an image of what will happen at the end. The beast from the sea (with it's 7 OROS and 10 horns) is not here yet...duh. If the 7 kings related to the 7 heads, it would rise HAVE TO rise with at least 5 already dead. Makes zero sense logically and within the Bible's own answers to the imagery. Heads = mountains, horns = kings. THAT is what the Bible says.
This stupid idea of the False Christ receiving a deadly wound comes from very unsound exegesis.
__________________ John 14:6
Pray for the truly perscuted brethren in Christ throughout the world.
The angel described the seven heads bothas seven hills on which the woman sits as well as seven kings (five fallen, one is, one is yet to come).
NO NO NO it does not!! Quit adding to the Word! Have you forgetten there are TWO beasts that rise? One from the sea with 7 heads, and one from the earth looking like the Lamb. Rev. 17 is addressing each, but there is always a distinction between the government (beast 1) and its king (beast 2).
The seven hills would represent the kingdoms of the world - globally.
Agreed. Though this is something new, all the kingdoms of the world "in a moment of time" as Satan said to the Lord.
Daniel makes this clear in the description of the statue and a beast in Daniel.
The most germane chapter is Dan. 7 of course. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
The beast from the sea in Rev. 13 is the combination of these. Same 10 horns representing kings, now pay attention: I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things...And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them
Got it folks??? Kings (including the False Christ) are symbolically HORNS. NOT HEADS OF THE BEAST.
And who is this little horn that makes war with the saints again? It sure as heck ain't Nimrod: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The seven-headed beast represents a global government. The eighth king, belonging to the seven, is the anti-christ (the "mouth" of the beast).
Can't you see that there is no logic in that statement? The imagery has to remain consisrent, otherwise it is useless to us. The heads are either mountains or kings, but NOT both. The Bible answers itself.
__________________ John 14:6
Pray for the truly perscuted brethren in Christ throughout the world.
Last edited by Zadok7000; 20th October 2009 at 11:42 AM.
NO NO NO it does not!! Quit adding to the Word! Have you forgetten there are TWO beasts that rise? One from the sea with 7 heads, and one from the earth looking like the Lamb. Rev. 17 is addressing each, but there is always a distinction between the government (beast 1) and its king (beast 2).
Agreed. Though this is something new, all the kingdoms of the world "in a moment of time" as Satan said to the Lord.
The most germane chapter is Dan. 7 of course. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
The beast from the sea in Rev. 13 is the combination of these. Same 10 horns representing kings, now pay attention: I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things...And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them
Got it folks??? Kings (including the False Christ) are symbolically HORNS. NOT HEADS OF THE BEAST.
And who is this little horn that makes war with the saints again? It sure as heck ain't Nimrod: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Can't you see that there is no logic in that statement? The imagery has to remain consisrent, otherwise it is useless to us. The heads are either mountains or kings, but NOT both. The Bible answers itself.
Rev 17 is not speaking of two beasts. It is speaking of one beast with seven heads and ten horns.
How do I know? Because the same beast is described in Rev 12 as having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
The second beast is described this way:
Rev 13:11¶And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
The beast with seven heads and ten horns is not the same as the 2nd beast with two horns like a lamb, speaking as a dragon.
Jesus told us in Matt 24 that after the tribulation is cut short, false Christs and false prophets would arise performing false miracles. The anti-christ is the false christ ("mouth" of the 1st beast) and the false prophet is his pal (2nd beast given authority after 1st beast is wounded by the sword). There are three in total: the devil, the anti-christ, and the false prophet.
For some reason the tags are not working right now, so my apologies for any confusion. Jen's words are in quotes:
"Rev 17 is not speaking of two beasts. It is speaking of one beast with seven heads and ten horns. How do I know? Because the same beast is described in Rev 12 as having seven heads and ten horns"
That's what's called a non-sequitur argument. Rev. 17 can't be talking about the beast of the earth because (you don't believe) Rev. 12 doesn't? Fallacious, but let's pursue the image that way so you may see your error. The "wonder in heaven" dragon in Rev. 12 is the beast with 7 heads, 10 horns and 7 crowns (10 crowns are on the beast from the sea in chapter 13 but let's leave that alone for now), and we are told that the dragon = Satan the devil; the individual Accuser. So which is it? Is Satan an individual or not? The imagery must remain consistent. Every single time, EVERY SINGLE TIME we see multi-headed beasts, it is a government/kingdom. Since we are told explicitly that the heads = mountains, any mention of individual kings MUST relate to horns. Both Revelation and Daniel FORBID any other interpretation. You want to ignore OROS and create a new symbology where a king is a head and not a horn. You have a pre-conceived notion in your mind about what you expect, so your vision is cloudy. Trust me on this, I used to be in the same boat.
"The beast with seven heads and ten horns is not the same as the 2nd beast with two horns like a lamb, speaking as a dragon"
No duh. That's what I have been saying all along. The beast from the earth speaks as a dragon because he IS the dragon, albeit in disguise as an angel of light. Rev. 13 speaks of 2 beasts. So does Rev. 17. So does Rev. 12.
"Jesus told us in Matt 24 that after the tribulation is cut short, false Christs and false prophets would arise performing false miracles"
LOL - your reading comprehension stinks! Actually, He didn't say that at all...He said if the Tribulation WAS NOT CUT SHORT, everyone on earth would be deceived by those false miracles. Also, study the Greek there, the terms pseudochristos and pseudoprophetes are NOT plural and are equated. In other words, For there shall arise the false Christ, (the false prophet), and he shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they (the signs and wonders) shall deceive the very elect
"The anti-christ is the false christ ("mouth" of the 1st beast) and the false prophet is his pal (2nd beast given authority after 1st beast is wounded by the sword). There are three in total: the devil, the anti-christ, and the false prophet"
Another LOL. This is nothing but extra-biblical media hype you are swallowing.
__________________ John 14:6
Pray for the truly perscuted brethren in Christ throughout the world.
Last edited by Zadok7000; 26th October 2009 at 02:14 PM.
Are any of you who are posting here even called, annointed and chosen as a Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor or Teacher?Ephes. 4:11-16 (KJV) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Where is the Love?</p>
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It first appears in the person of Abimelek who while storming a city's wall had his skull crushed by a millstone. This identifies the beast as a military commander. The second beast, a false prophet, the antichrist, a hebrew prince who will once again, like Mannasseh, defile the sanctuary, making God leaving it desolate.
I agree with brad the deadly head wound is the fall of Rome in 476 AD I think the healing is the creation of the Holy Roman Empire.
This doctrine created by people that this is a One world government is not scripture it is the doctrine of men a doctrine that ignores scripture............adds to the prophetic course of events we are given in daniel 2:
I agree with brad the deadly head wound is the fall of Rome in 476 AD I think the healing is the creation of the Holy Roman Empire.
This doctrine created by people that this is a One world government is not scripture it is the doctrine of men a doctrine that ignores scripture............adds to the prophetic course of events we are given in daniel 2:
What about the doctrine that it's a man? Which is how the beast is described. In Rev 17, it's pretty clear that he is a person and ruler. Not a nation. I just don't follow linguistically how you make this leap. NOt to mention that we are given types of the AC in the Old Testament and each time it's a person.
Furthermore, the idea that it's Rome in 476 does not follow with people wondering after the beast "whose deadly wound was healed." Is the Roman Empire going to be "officially re-established"? I don't think it will be and even if it were, I seriously doubt anyone would care. Most people vaguely know Roman history so a return would not cause that much shock or awe. Much less "wonder."
NO IT DOES NOT
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