You seem to be missing the point here. This isn't about how many awards Bishop Gumbleton has won, how well espected he is in certain fields or anything of the sort.
As far as I know, no-one is calling for him to be excommunicated, burnt at the stake or anything else, not has anyone (Bishop Sample least of all) made a blanket condemnation of everything he has ever done or said.
No-one, as far as I know, is denying that he has something relevant to say about some important topics. BUT, it also can't be denied that on other important topics, he has has publically advocated positions that are in direct contracdiction to Church teachings.
All it comes down to is that Bishop Sample has an obligation to the people of his diocese to make sure that they are not exposed to heterodox teachings on important topics from anyone, especially coming from someone who is a Catholic Bishop.
If Bishop Sample had allowed him to speak, regardless of what he spoke about, not only would some see it as implicit endorsement of Bishop Gumbletons position across variois topics, but there would be really no way to ensure Bishop Gumbleton didn't incorporate some of his heterodox views into his presentation.
This being the case, the only responsible thing to do, sondiering his obligations as a diocean Bishop, was to ask Bishop Gumbleton not to speak in his Diocese.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
* Why was Bishop Gumbleton asked to retire and then removed against his wishes from his parish in inner-city Detroit when there is a priest shortage, no one available to replace him and the parishioners wanted him to stay (NCR, Feb. 2)? Why indeed? He has stated he was removed on orders from the Vatican as punishment for testifying before the Ohio legislature and urging that body to extend a window to allow a legal process for victims of sexual abuse when the time allowed in the statue of limitations had expired--a position in direct opposition to the Ohio Bishops' Conference. During that testimony, he again broke ranks and made it public that as a teen he was abused by a priest.
We have known and admired Bishop Gumbleton for many years. Both of us worked closely with him when we served separate terms as national coordinator of Pax Christi USA and he served as bishop president and a member of the national council. He is a man of peace, integrity and fearless commitment to truth. We believe him. So who gets hurt here? Bishop Gumbleton is at peace, though heartbroken, because he truly loves this parish. He said publicly that he does not regret his actions and would do it again even knowing the consequences. He will go to places in the world and in the church where no one dares and speak for the voiceless. The parishioners of St. Leo lose a pastor who cared for them, challenged them and built a vibrant community. The virtue of justice loses because this is a warning to anyone who dares speak his or her truth and break the wall of silence and secrecy surrounding church matters. And let's not forget the children.
Let me try to figure this out. Bishop Gumbleton has not been excommunicated or censured. He was extremely popular, apparently, in his diocese. He was an inspirational figure to Catholics across the country because of his courageous stand for world peace.
Catholics today have internet access, cell phone access, access to print, radio, and video media. And so, even if Bishop Sample wants to "protect" the Catholics in his diocese from words of peace and social justice (Good heavens! We can't hear things like that!) they will listen to Bishop Gumbleton through print and electronic media.
I know that some Catholics, for inexplicable reasons, would like to declare a moratorium on homilies about peace and social justice until Roe v. Wade is overturned. Such needless, unnecessary distractions! They just don't understand why all newspapers aren't as balanced (!) as Lifesite.
I never really thought that much about Bishop Gumbleton, but now I have gotten curious and will read some of his NCR columns, because it seems as if he has some important things to say that are probably being neglected in the diocese of Marquette.
__________________
Theodore Roosevelt said, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
Let me try to figure this out. Bishop Gumbleton has not been excommunicated or censured. He was extremely popular, apparently, in his diocese. He was an inspirational figure to Catholics across the country because of his courageous stand for world peace.
1/ Popularity doesn't necassarily speak anything about Bishop Gumbleton's character. In this day and age where immorality and worldliness seem to enjpy extreme popularity, I would have thought that much ould be obvious.
2/ Again, as far as I know, his stance on world peace has exactly nothing to do with this situation. He wasn't asked not to speak because of it. What can't be denied is that he does publically advocate a number of positions which do go against Church teaching. His stanceon world peace, however admirable, doesn't change this fact
Catholics today have internet access, cell phone access, access to print, radio, and video media. And so, even if Bishop Sample wants to "protect" the Catholics in his diocese from words of peace and social justice (Good heavens! We can't hear things like that!) they will listen to Bishop Gumbleton through print and electronic media.
True, but it doesn't mean that Bishop Sample should allow thes things to happen as far as he has any control over it. If nothing else, this will at least send the message (to those that care, anyway), that his positions do not necassarily represent those of the Church.
Also, could you kindly stop trying to insinuate that Bishop Sample's actions some how have something to do with Bishop Gumbleton's message of peace.
I know that some Catholics, for inexplicable reasons, would like to declare a moratorium on homilies about peace and social justice until Roe v. Wade is overturned. Such needless, unnecessary distractions! They just don't understand why all newspapers aren't as balanced (!) as Lifesite.
The problem is that un-Catholic teachings seem to often hide behind the guise of Social Justice. I don't of any Catholics who have a problem with Social Justice, or homilies on such, so long as they fall within the realms of Catholic orthodoxy.
I never really thought that much about Bishop Gumbleton, but now I have gotten curious and will read some of his NCR columns, because it seems as if he has some important things to say that are probably being neglected in the diocese of Marquette.
Doubtful. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the Diocese of Marquette who fight for the cause of world peace and true Social Justice. If, however, the non-Catholic teachings which Bishop Gumbleton promotes are being "neglected", all the better for people of that Diocese.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fantine, no offense but why are you so against this? Surely you do not want this guy teaching heresy.
__________________
"There is one true Church, the really ancient Church into which are enrolled those who are righteous according to God's ordinance.... In essence, in idea, in origin, in preeminence we say that the ancient Catholic Church is the only Church." - Clement of Alexandria, Stromata (Before 215 AD)
"The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).
Fantine, no offense but why are you so against this? Surely you do not want this guy teaching heresy.
Well, duh.
The topic he's discussing isn't a topic on which he's said anything controversial (falling short of heresy.) It's a topic on which he has considerable expertise, formidable expertise.
Secondly, being an advocate of stronger steps against sexual abuse (and admitting he had been sexually abused in seminary) isn't heretical. It's embarrassing for the Church. It took courage for him to say that. It was necessary.
And so he wants homosexuals to be allowed to become priests. He is talking about people with the homosexual orientation who are celibate. If you're celibate, you're celibate, and whether the "sacrifice" you have made is giving up one type of love or another, it's still celibacy. As studies have shown, there have been higher percentages of gay men in the priesthood than in the general population. Men who are attracted to pederasty, of course, are a danger, but those men can be gay or straight.
I am sure there are many seminarians with other psychological problems that are sailing right through. It seems, for example, that the new crop of priests and bishops has more than it's share of control freaks. Some with a touch of narcissism.
I don't see how having an attraction to men can be so disordered that it keeps someone from functioning well in the priesthood (especially since that attraction to men is usually accompanied by greater sensitivity, artistic sensibility, and other very positive characteristics for someone in ministry to possess.)
Finally, the ordination of women. I don't know what he said. The sin probably wasn't in saying it but in saying it to the wrong people, because lots of people have said it to me and called people like Gumbleton a prophet, but I'm not the wrong people, because I'm not a whistle-blower for people who state their opinion. When half the people in a parish would call him a prophet....well, let's just say prophets are never accepted in their own time.
Plus that, if the aim is to get him to STOP, one must look at his psychological makeup. He's been arrested many times for war protests. He is obviously someone who speaks louder when he is repressed. (Maybe his real crime for Bishop Sample is that none of the arrests took place outside of an abortion clinic...)
Wow, now he's a martyr and a prophet. It gets better and better for Bishop G.
__________________
Theodore Roosevelt said, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
Fantine, the article states that the Bishop didn't want him there because of his parishiners being able to talk to him AFTER the speeches.
And possibly his heterodox ideas would seem to be given a thumbsup - or be condoned by his presense.
Its not the speech - it's the afterwards that Bishop Sample rightfully worried about.
Settled??
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"St Michael the ArchAngel, defend us in battle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matthew Chapter 7
7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
Fantine, the article states that the Bishop didn't want him there because of his parishiners being able to talk to him AFTER the speeches.
And possibly his heterodox ideas would seem to be given a thumbsup - or be condoned by his presense.
Its not the speech - it's the afterwards that Bishop Sample rightfully worried about.
Settled??
Censorship is alive in the diocese of Marquette, Wisconsin. I don't think that any parishioners who spoke to Bishop Gumbleton after the speech would have ever gotten the mistaken impression that Bishop Sample approved of him...
But of course, they wouldn't have cared, either.
__________________
Theodore Roosevelt said, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
Gumbleton is 30 years senior to Sample, and represents an aging and shrinking demographic of US bishops whose heterodox opinions were formed in seminaries during the 1950s and who were active in ministry during the cultural upheaval of the 1960s and 70s.
Sample, on the other hand, represents a younger class of bishops formed during the papacy of John Paul II that have trended toward taking up the challenge of defending orthodox teachings on morals, doctrine, and liturgy.
It is good news that the Catholic seminaries have decided to make Catholic teaching the focus of Catholicism again.
Censorship is alive in the diocese of Marquette, Wisconsin. I don't think that any parishioners who spoke to Bishop Gumbleton after the speech would have ever gotten the mistaken impression that Bishop Sample approved of him...
But of course, they wouldn't have cared, either.
God is very much into censorship.
He likes modesty, morality, piety, chastity, orthodoxy, and everything else that is VERY UNPOPULAR to ppl.
And FWIW - if their Bishop gave him the - then they may construe he agrees with his hederodoxy.
Its agreement by association...ya know.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"St Michael the ArchAngel, defend us in battle."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matthew Chapter 7
7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
And kudos to Bishop Sample! 
Hearing news like this makes me so happy. 
I'm so glad that Bishop Sample stood up for what is right! 
Linear Mode
