I directly asked Mr. Fawcett this question and he opted out of it. Perhaps you would be willing to answer it.
Is it to be understood that members within the SDA denomination as well as people outside it CAN'T discuss ANYTHING that goes against what the Prophet Ellen White said in her books?
The way I've understood it thus far was that people had to keep their discussion to things outside of the 28 FB's they might not see eye to eye on. Ellen indeed does teach some things that are not mentioned within the FB so does that mean that;
A) She is the ultimate authority and interprets the Scriptures for the SDA's.
or
B) We can discuss subjects that are not in the FB but are taught by the Prophet?
Pythons, is it okay to argue against purgatory or the perpetual virginity of of Mary in OBOB? No. It is not okay to argue against SDA doctrine in the Traditional Adventist forum. The Fundamental beliefs include this:
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
Note it does NOT say she is the "ultimate authority" - that is your wording. However, her writings are regarded a "continuing and authoritiative source of truth" - so it is not an option to pick either a or b as you wrote them. Like the other congregational forums, you cannot debate against SDA beliefs.
Any furthur discussion of this will need to go to pm - the thread has gone off topic.
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Last post you will see me make in the SDA forum Free. Thank you for answering what Fawcett would not.
This comment proves that you were never really here for fellowship (on a friendly basis); rather, you came here simply because you want to argue with us. And now that you see that you can't do what you have been doing all along you are leaving.
This comment proves that you were never really here for fellowship (on a friendly basis); rather, you came here simply because you want to argue with us. And now that you see that you can't do what you have been doing all along you are leaving.
What is your point? Are you trying to get him to stay?
__________________ Freeindeed So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1
It would have been easier for the rule to simply state that no one can debate against anything Ellen White said in any of her teachings. That would have saved a lot of trouble. Since all the other 27 FB are contained within her works why bother listing them.
Last post you will see me make in the SDA forum Free. Thank you for answering what Fawcett would not.
Pythons, as FreeinChrist has already stated by posting the FB #4, the official statement says nothing about Jesus having a propensity or ability to sin or sinful flesh. Even though this the teaching that Jesus could have sinned is behind the statement, it is not found in the statement itself and is a topic that we are 'allowed' to discuss. I suppose that if EGW statements were posted stating that he could have sinned then we would not be able to state anything to the contrary. You know the drill. It's much like Sabbath School classes where a discussion over a topic is taking place and once EGW is quoted, end of discussion.
In Christ alone...
__________________ Freeindeed So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1
Pythons, as FreeinChrist has already stated by posting the FB #4, the official statement says nothing about Jesus having a propensity or ability to sin or sinful flesh. Even though this the teaching that Jesus could have sinned is behind .
I simply posted the Fundamental belief - made no coment as to whether it says he had a propensity to sin or the ability to sin.
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I simply posted the Fundamental belief - made no coment as to whether it says he had a propensity to sin or the ability to sin.
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, only that you had posted the official wording of FB #4 which does not state that Christ had the propensity to sin. My apologies for the implication.
In Christ alone...
__________________ Freeindeed So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1
This is one of those never-ending debates that gets discussed into a big circle.
I guess asking/answering a different question along the same lines aids in the discussion.
Did Jesus really DIE for our sins?
He's God, and God can't die.
Or did Jesus the man, born of a woman, give up His divinity to truly die?
If He could give up His divinity to die, He gave up His divinity before death, and relied on the Father just like we have to do.
If He didn't give up His divinity and didn't really die, why did He need to make a trip here to earth in the first place? He could've saved us all from heaven.
And again, God can't die. He alone has immortality.
__________________ Everyone wants a Savior, but not everyone seems to want a LORD.
If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
This is one of those never-ending debates that gets discussed into a big circle.
I guess asking/answering a different question along the same lines aids in the discussion.
Did Jesus really DIE for our sins?
He's God, and God can't die.
Or did Jesus the man, born of a woman, give up His divinity to truly die?
If He could give up His divinity to die, He gave up His divinity before death, and relied on the Father just like we have to do.
If He didn't give up His divinity and didn't really die, why did He need to make a trip here to earth in the first place? He could've saved us all from heaven.
And again, God can't die. He alone has immortality.
Can God make a rock so big that He can't lift it?
I think the problem comes when we as finite people try to completely understand the infinite.
To me the immortal God manifested His character through mortal flesh. The manifestation of God in the flesh is only part of God for God is everywhere at the same time. Just because the flesh died does not mean God as a whole died. My hand can die yet I myself am still alive. My whole arm can die and yet I myself am still alive. The charatcer of God took on mortal flesh yet God Himself as a whole is immortal.
As far as Jesus being able to sin I believe He could have but that does not mean God as a whole sinned.
Paul says it like this.
Romans 7:17-18 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Paul understood his sinful flesh in that if he sinned it was not him who sinned, but rather, his sinful flesh.
Jesus took on sinful flesh. If He gave in to the sinful flesh it would have been the sinful flesh that sinned not God.
These are just some of my thoughts.
__________________ John 14:21 The person who accepts my commands and obeys them is the one who truly loves me. My Father will love the person who loves me, and I will love him and make myself known to him.''
I think the problem comes when we as finite people try to completely understand the infinite.
To me the immortal God manifested His character through mortal flesh. The manifestation of God in the flesh is only part of God for God is everywhere at the same time. Just because the flesh died does not mean God as a whole died. My hand can die yet I myself am still alive. My whole arm can die and yet I myself am still alive. The charatcer of God took on mortal flesh yet God Himself as a whole is immortal.
As far as Jesus being able to sin I believe He could have but that does not mean God as a whole sinned.
Paul says it like this.
Romans 7:17-18 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Paul understood his sinful flesh in that if he sinned it was not him who sinned, but rather, his sinful flesh.
Jesus took on sinful flesh. If He gave in to the sinful flesh it would have been the sinful flesh that sinned not God.
These are just some of my thoughts.
I agree.
I believe wholeheartedly that Christ did indeed die for my sins and the sins of the world. I don't believe He made a "show" that looked like He died, nor do I believe the stripes and humiliation didn't hurt Him. I believe He felt it just as much as any other human being would've....but He relied on God and the will of the Father to get through it.
The same is true for sin. Of course He could've sinned, but He didn't, and that's what makes him our blessed Savior. He took on flesh, and conquered it.
__________________ Everyone wants a Savior, but not everyone seems to want a LORD.
If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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