Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
__________________ We are surrounded by endless forms, most beautiful and most wonderful, and it is noaccident, but the direct consequence of evolution by non-random natural selection - the only game in town, the greatest show on Earth. ~R.D.
Typically, it means a intelligent force was behind it.....
But then, that begs the question, what is Intelligence? I mean, look at this world! A Chimp could have designed better!
__________________ John Lennon--"I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."
I've been to Wonderland once too often...... one can no longer tell the difference betwix me and the Hatter!
Design as in things are impossible by chance, therefore they must have at least been 'intelligently guided' at one end of the definition of ID, or 'made' at the other.
Design as in things are impossible by chance, therefore they must have at least been 'intelligently guided' at one end of the definition of ID, or 'made' at the other.
You define design as something that is impossible by chance and has to have an "intelligent guide"? That's a pretty broad definition. Me walking through a maze could qualify for that.
I'd define it as something that was consciously created in a specific way, to serve a specific purpose.
For example, a fork is created the way it is with a reason behind it. It's not a random shape, it's been created purposefully the way it is to fulfill a certain requirement.
I'd define it as something that was consciously created in a specific way, to serve a specific purpose.
For example, a fork is created the way it is with a reason behind it. It's not a random shape, it's been created purposefully the way it is to fulfill a certain requirement.
Typically, it means a intelligent force was behind it.....
But then, that begs the question, what is Intelligence? I mean, look at this world! A Chimp could have designed better!
Whats the alternative?
The sun by perfect chance is the right distance from the earth.
The earth by perfect chance is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The moon by perfect chance is the right distance from the earth for its gravitational pull. By perfect chance the moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. By perfect chance we have water which is colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life: By perfect chance water has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees. By perfect chance water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels. By perfect chance water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. By perfect chance water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees. By perfect chance water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter. By perfect chance ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water. By perfect chance the human brain simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. By perfect chance The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. By perfect chance the eye can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter. By perfect chance we can identify laws of nature that never change and observe the universe which is so orderly, so reliable .
There are many more "by perfect chance" items I found, but I will close with a verse.
Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God.
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I asked Jesus "How much do you love me?" He answered "This much". Then He stretched out His arms and died for me.
If you have everything but Jesus, you have nothing. If you have nothing but Jesus, you have everything.
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Whats the alternative?
The sun by perfect chance is the right distance from the earth.
The earth by perfect chance is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The moon by perfect chance is the right distance from the earth for its gravitational pull. By perfect chance the moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. By perfect chance we have water which is colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life: By perfect chance water has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees. By perfect chance water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels. By perfect chance water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. By perfect chance water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees. By perfect chance water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter. By perfect chance ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water. By perfect chance the human brain simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. By perfect chance The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. By perfect chance the eye can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter. By perfect chance we can identify laws of nature that never change and observe the universe which is so orderly, so reliable .
There are many more "by perfect chance" items I found, but I will close with a verse.
Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God.
This is known as the "anthropic principle," and it is only creationists who seemed to be fooled by it. There are billions (yes, that's 000000000 'zeros') of galaxies, with trillions (yes, that's 000000000000 'zeros') of planets. Given these odds, is it possible that just once in the universe conditions were present as to allow life to evolve?
BTW, humans can only see colors in the visible spectrum, and ToE easily explains how the eye evolved. Fascinating really. You should check it out sometime.
But we digress, I am asking ID/creationists to give their working definition of "design."
__________________ We are surrounded by endless forms, most beautiful and most wonderful, and it is noaccident, but the direct consequence of evolution by non-random natural selection - the only game in town, the greatest show on Earth. ~R.D.
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