Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
For some reason, non-biological evolution was "strong" enough to "create" the sun, but its [much] weaker twin --- biological evolution --- can't seem to do a thing outside of this planet.
That's a little more than coincidental, if you ask me.
The Earth's orbit is elliptical, in other words the distance varies. There's nothing perfect about it.
Meshach said
So its not true if we were closer to the sun we would burn , or farther away we would freeze?
plindboe said
If the environment in which we exist couldn't support our existence, we wouldn't be here in the first place. So the fact that we are here means that there's a 100% chance that we're in an environment that can support our existance. How creationists can be astonished by a 100% probability I find a constant source of amusement.
Meshach said
Just take it by faith plindboe, everything we need is conveniently here
plinboe said
Oh, stop with the perfect chance nonsense. Just about any distances and any number of moons would result in tides. Even without moons, the Sun alone would have a significant tidal influence.
Meshach said
Whats the matter? You dont think chance is involved. Oh yah, natural selection is your god.
plindboe said
Water is generally agreed upon to be a requirement for life. It's a very abundant molecule, which again, has nothing to do with perfect chance, being an extremely simple molecule. Btw, those smallest blood vessels and tallest trees evolved, so there's no perfect chance or design involved. Also, "water is chemically neutral"? Have you never heard of hydrolysis before? Water participates in reactions all the times.
Meshach said
So agian, its not chance water is here? Natural selection did it?
plindboe laughed
lol
Meshach laughed also
ROFLOL
plindboe said
Again, if the environment in which we exist couldn't support our existence, we wouldn't be here in the first place. So the fact that we are here means that there's a 100% chance that we're in an environment that can support our existance.
Meshach said
Very good Sherlock, good thing we have natural selection to thank for our brain so we can come to these conclusions.
To get a grasp on the amount of mutations we are dealing with here...
A recent experiment on bacteria went through 40,000 generations to produce a single change that enabled it to digest something it had not previously been able to handle.
Citation please.
Between humans and a putative human-ape ancestor ten million years ago there are a maximum of perhaps one million generations, depending on the reproductive age at different stages. On the basis of the experimental evidence, that gives time for about 25 minor changes in an asexual species. At a minimum some 30 million changes are required, all of which have to be fixed in the genes despite the hurdles of sexual reproduction.
That's a many-many-many-sided dice
... it's a sphere!
Mutation rates aren't a problem. I think you're confusing isolating a specific change versus actual rates of mutation over time.
If we assume ~100 mutations per individual (based on estimates of mutations in humans this is very reasonable, even low), 250k generations and a mean population size of 100k, that's a total of 2.5 trillion mutations that could be introduced into the population during its evolution. Obviously most of them won't be fixed. There's only ~60-70 million or so total mutations seperating humans and chimps; that's 30-35 million for each lineage and even some of those aren't fixed.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
For some reason, non-biological evolution was "strong" enough to "create" the sun, but its [much] weaker twin --- biological evolution --- can't seem to do a thing outside of this planet.
That's a little more than coincidental, if you ask me.
You're anthromorphizing the process of evolution now? That's just downright goofy.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Evolution is like a cheap fps (frames per second) movie, with most of the frames missing.
There's just not enough seconds in the universe for evolution to have gone from abiogenesis to us.
How can you state that with certainy? Have you counted them? How many Seconds would be required? How many Cells would be required to take of complete measurement? How about an Ocean of single Celled Organisms over a billion years instead of one Petridish over a single week.
__________________ John Lennon--"I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."
I've been to Wonderland once too often...... one can no longer tell the difference betwix me and the Hatter!
You obviously know nothing about games of Chance......
You see, if you agree that it's a Game of Chance then you are also conceeding that it's a Probable Metaphor.. You're not doing much for your arguement by giving up your only point of contest.
We can Prove that a pair of Dice has a chance to come of 7. This isn't Faith. This has nothing to do with Faith. OK. Betting your whole Life-Savings that a pair of dice WILL Land of 7 if you roll; that's Faith. It's also not playing the game based on it's odds either.
Even something has no more then a 1% chance of something occuring still has a chance to occur. It doesn't matter how low of a chance of something occuring. This doesn't change the fact that, if it did occur, it still occured!
The only way to argue against chance is to prove that those dice will never land on 7; which you can not do.
But you can prove without a doubt that they did land on 7?
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I asked Jesus "How much do you love me?" He answered "This much". Then He stretched out His arms and died for me.
If you have everything but Jesus, you have nothing. If you have nothing but Jesus, you have everything.
Have you given much thought to where you are going to spend eternity?
How can you state that with certainy? Have you counted them? How many Seconds would be required? How many Cells would be required to take of complete measurement? How about an Ocean of single Celled Organisms over a billion years instead of one Petridish over a single week.
Dont' get him started. He doesn't have anything besides his silly and completely irrelevant analogies.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
How can you state that with certainy? Have you counted them? How many Seconds would be required? How many Cells would be required to take of complete measurement? How about an Ocean of single Celled Organisms over a billion years instead of one Petridish over a single week.
In order to go from abiogenesis to us in one analog wave, you're going to need one doosey of a lot of mutants.
I can't remember who just recently said it, but if my memory serves me correctly, someone on here just recently said that a new species occurs something like every 174 mutants.
You're telling me that life went from a cyanovirus (or whatever it's called) to humankind in "only" 14 billion years?
I disagree.
As Sheriff Brodie said, 'We're going to need a bigger boat.'
Linear Mode
