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11th October 2009, 10:53 AM
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | | According to Genesis, God didn't create anything.
Well, that's not entirely true: he created somethings, but not (say), the Heavens and the Earth. She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".
The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth"
According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of nothing.
Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.
She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but not the Earth itself." God is not the Creator, claims academic - Telegraph
Thoughts? Ideas?
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11th October 2009, 02:27 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child  Thoughts? Ideas?
The King James writers weren't fooled.
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11th October 2009, 02:42 PM
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Reps: 5,570,983,808,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET The King James writers weren't fooled.
Of course, because 400 years ago no one was trying to gain more power by making God seem more powerful than the Bible states, when they translated it.[/sarcasm]
Seriously, the writers may not've been fooled, but when they're translating an ancient text that loads of people follow, then it becomes so easy to add/change bits to suit their own purposes. Especially if everyone else who can read it in the older language also has something to gain by the changes you make.
Of course, it contradicts what you've been brainwashed to believe, so as per usual, you'll just dismiss the entire notion that either the original translators got it wrong, or that they deliberately changed it in order to obtain more power.
Also, in both cases, you'd be forced to ask "How much else was mis-translated?", but you can't do that, because you're so set on the Bible being exactly as you interpret it. For you, the very thought of it being translated wrong - for whatever reason - is blasphemy.  |
11th October 2009, 02:46 PM
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET The King James writers weren't fooled.
Says you.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
"A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone."
- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
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11th October 2009, 02:48 PM
| | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Alunyel Seriously, the writers may not've been fooled, but when they're translating an ancient text...
Um ... no ... not an 'ancient text'.
They were translating the AV1560 Geneva Bible --- the AV1611's predecessor.
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11th October 2009, 02:56 PM
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Reps: 5,570,983,808,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Um ... no ... not an 'ancient text'.
They were translating the AV1560 Geneva Bible --- the AV1611's predecessor.
Which, if you follow it back far enough, is translated from the Hebrew version.
All of them claim God "created" the "Heaven and the Earth". So if this new information that's just come to light is correct, then yes, they were fooled. |
11th October 2009, 03:01 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child Thoughts? Ideas? Originally Posted by AV1611VET The King James writers weren't fooled. Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child Says you.
We'll just see if 'says you' is your standard reply to everyone that responds to your OP, or if you are just baiting Christians in order to release some pent-up sardonic attitude.
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11th October 2009, 03:12 PM
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Reps: 205,146,621,849,477,600 (power: 0) | | | Well, this would go against several statements elsewhere in the Bible (i.e. not in Genesis) that through Him all things were made.
Additionally, even though this claims God separated heaven and earth, this doesn't mean that he did not create them initially - maybe this would be a problem for a literalist, I don't know.
Also, the idea that Genesis 1 can't represent both the beginning of time and the beginning of a narration seems kinda...well...dumb. |
11th October 2009, 04:48 PM
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Reps: 193,626,028,018,630,112 (power: 193,626,028,018,645) | | | The article, of course, doesn't show what the analysis was that brought Van Wolde to this conclusion.
As presented, it seems that the usages of bara can be read consistently to mean "separated from" (or whatever). This, in and of itself, is a far cry from saying that the originators of the word didn't intend it to mean "created". I'm not holding my breath.
That said, it has struck me before that Genesis 1 could be read to be consistent with other mythologies: that God or gods found themselves to have emerged from pre-existent, chaotic matter and promptly set about organizing it. |
11th October 2009, 06:38 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | | When it comes to the act of creatio ex nihilo, I am baffled by you guys' insistence on having evidence.
I have no idea what kind of evidence you guys expect there to be.
Personally, I don't think you guys know yourself --- you've never had to deal with creatio ex nihilo in science class, so you're at a total loss.
In addition, you're taught that the Law of Conservation of Energy has always been in effect, which is what the Bible would refer to as a 'damnable heresy'.
Not the law itself, but the teaching that it has always been in effect is the heresy.
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