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  #1  
Old 7th October 2009, 10:04 PM
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Is there a just war?

Much debate has been made among Christians in order to explain why God seems to have endorsed the wars waged by the Israelites when they left Egypt and settled in Canaan. Despite the few theories that I have been exposed to, perhaps the one that seems to convince me the most is that based on the anthropological mode which, in a few words, suggests that for that time period and locale the issue of taking one’s life was not a matter of right or wrong, but rather an act of sacrifice to the deity. This was the common view for Ancient Near Eastern person, but think in mass destructions in those terms is, in my opinion, still quite a stretch.
Jesus however, rebukes every act of violence. Here some examples: In Matthew 5:44 Jesus instructs, “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of you Father in heaven” and in verse 39 he says “if one strikes you on one cheek, turn him the other also.” It is reasonably to believe that early Christians sought peace and were not very supportive of military engagement or allegiance. That early view changed more drastically after Constantine’s conversion and later rise of Christianity as the Roman State religion under Theodosius.
I could still go a long way, but before that, I would like to request your opinion on the issue of the wars of the Old Testament. How do you interpret them and how does it apply to our world today meaning how can we engage in a war and believe God is endorsing it?
Appreciate your comments!
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  #2  
Old 8th October 2009, 09:21 AM
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That's a tough verse for sure [Mt 5:44]. Jesus tells us to pray for those who persecute us, and I think the context supports turning the other cheek when such persecution results being struck on the cheek (attacked?).
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Contextually, Jesus is countering the notion that it's ok to hate our enemy and He gives an example [v44] of how to do the opposite, which is love them instead - "enemy" here being those who hate us (evidenced by their persecution of us) and whom the Israelites of the day hated (and taught each other to hate) because of that persecution.

Of course, this verse (IMHO anyway) doesn't address the various other reasons for "war" - or to be general, engage in violence with others. The reason here is persecution.

What if, say, the life of someone else was on the line? Would this verse condone praying for the person about to commit murder rather than stepping in to help the [soon to be] victim? And what means are available to us in such an act of protection?

To be honest, I don't know.

David was prevented by God from building the new Temple because he was a man of violence [war]
‘You may not build a house for my name, for you are a man of war and have shed blood.’ Yet the Lord God of Israel chose me from all my father's house to be king over Israel forever. I Chron 28:3f
...yet God had chosen David ['s seed] to be king over Israel.

At the very least, we know God is averse to violence in His children. We can state with certainty that if violence [war] is engaged, such a decision must not be made trivially and the reasons for doing so be serious enough to warrant [engaging in] violence.

We also know that vengeance is NOT one of those valid reasons - which is what I believe Jesus is addressing in Mt 5 - and as Paul addressed to the Romans:
If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:18ff
So while we are not permitted to take vengeance for violence [done to whomever], the question remains open, are we permitted to engage in violence, say, to protect the innocent, to prevent further violence? Praying for someone [rather than hating them] after they've committed violence, and treatment of those who have committed violence or who are committed to violence, is different than instruction on how to protect [the innocent] when violence upon them is imminent. Indeed, tough question.
Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him; I will protect him, because he knows my name. Ps 91:14
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Old 8th October 2009, 09:24 AM
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PS: you should uncheck the tag on this thread with your personal email - if only for your own protection; but know too that sharing personal email isn't allowed publicly on CF, but you can share it privately with those you wish.
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Old 10th October 2009, 01:47 PM
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War seems to be contrary to the message Christ taught to His disciples. We are told to turn the other cheek, and yet Revelation tells us that Christ will return as a warrior king to destroy the enemies of His people.
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Old 20th October 2009, 02:00 AM
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There were wars and people fought because they were attacked.. but when the hebrews came across tribes that would sacrifice humans, children in particular, to Molech/Baal, those God said 'Destroy'.

should give you a chill if you know how many babies have been aborted in this country and the associations made therein also to witchcraft.

One of my favorite bible passages is where God says to the Hebrews in Exodus.. that He will walk before them, and rid the land of their enemies etc.. I would have to look it up for the exact KJV verses.. but the hebrews did not do that.. they started attacking other tribes.. therein may lie the problem. Correct me if I am wrong. but anyway.. In my life.. I look to God. he protects us, he heals us, he provides.. many things go on in this world.. even some say they believe but often they walk another way.. for instance I am not against gun ownership.. but to own a gun for protection would be an insult to the Lord I believe.. in my life, I cannot say for yours.. but it would be saying I do not trust him to protect us.. in which case I am probaby not trusting him to lead us either. etc.
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