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11th October 2009, 12:02 PM
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Reps: 557,149,751,945,943,296 (power: 557,149,751,945,953) | | Originally Posted by zeke37  12And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. Prevailed simply means "continued unabated". On day 151 of the flood the waters only then begin to recede or abate. They were to no longer "prevail" from that point forward. See here: Genesis 7:11, In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. Genesis 8:13, In the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried from off the earth. And Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and behold, the face of the ground was dry. The rains and subterranean erruptions continued for 40 days. The the waters covered the earth for an additional 9 months (gestation for rebirth?) From the time of the initial downpouring to the time of the dry earth is 10½ months. A dry earth as a birthday gift to Noah.
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Last edited by SummaScriptura; 12th October 2009 at 01:03 PM.
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11th October 2009, 04:40 PM
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Reps: 42,591,578,411,047,920 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by SummaScriptura The floods lasted 1 year, not 150 days. The flood of Revelation 12, true to typology from the O.T. is a gentile military invasion.
The last three verses in Isaiah 17 prove you correct. The flood out of the devils mouth in Rev 12 is the gog invasion.
Isaiah 17: 12Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters! 13The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind. 14And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us. |
11th October 2009, 05:50 PM
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Reps: 557,149,751,945,943,296 (power: 557,149,751,945,953) | | | Daniel 9:26, The people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
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(and a sometimes Spirit-filled Southern Baptist) |
11th October 2009, 11:18 PM
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Reps: 242,185,112,465,767,904 (power: 242,185,112,465,778) | | Originally Posted by get it right No one saw the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory in 312 ad.
Mattew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Not literally, but Jesus has been sitting at the right hand of power ever since that day.
Nonetheless, all the earth saw the sign, and Jesus appeared to Constantine and said, "By this sign, conquer." Constantine put the sign on his laberum and immediately conquered Rome and all the known world for Jesus and His Church. Constantine, who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow, is the 1st horseman. The Christian kingdom he founded lasted over 1000 years.
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13th October 2009, 05:39 AM
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Reps: 1,702,079,835,121 (power: 0) | | Paul said in Hebrews, “we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses” meaning many witnesses. But in Thess Paul say's Christ comes on clouds, because that's what they are, clouds of heaven-in the air-in the sky. That's what God travels on-all throughout the bible.
Paul never said in Thess that Christ comes in a clowd of witnesses, he says Christ comes in a cloud.
Cloud, not witnesses, God is never said to travel on witnesses.
One uses the hebrews verse to try and deceive about the Thess verse.
We are indeed caught up to Christ in the clouds in the air exactly as the scriptures say.
The fortunate of us are, not those who teach against it, I believe.
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13th October 2009, 05:37 PM
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not that you will agree, but
the wintesses that Christ returns with are the dead in Christ,
1Thes4:13-16...
and they are gthered together by Christ, to those elect witnesses who are still alive at that time.
same as....
the elect from both heaven and earth...
in Mar13....
that are gathered together, just like in 1Thes4
and....
the army that comes with Him from heaven in Rev19:14,
to join with the many waters of Rev19:6-8.
again, not that YOU will agree....
but try to keep it civil/polite when disagreeing
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13th October 2009, 06:17 PM
| | watchman
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Originally Posted by *Charis* My apologies, Get-it-right... I misread Zeke's thought. If Jesus were to
return with a 'great cloud of witnesses' (He. 12), they would be ressurrected,
not dead. the believers in heaven, are with Jesus right now, waiting to come back here... they have a spiritual/angelic body now, 1Cor15, Mat23 they are wearing robes, and enquiring as to when the world would be judged for their deaths and other attrocities in Rev6's 5th seal. the angel that delivers Christ's words in Rev, is a former human, a prophet, and a believer in Christ Rev22. the dead in heaven are seen through out scripture, and they are promised to be coming back here... they are like angels... with bodies like angels (who were quite physical in Sodom with Lot), not flesh and blood, but with physical bodies non the less. it is with those heavenly bodies that they come back here to earth in... with Christ....at the last trump It is those heavenly bodies, that are resurrected/raised to life here again, as promised in 1Thes4 among other places. The greek word used in Heb. is nephos, and it has the meaning Zeke
was referring to:
1) a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng
The greek word for cloud used in 1 Thess. is not the same, and has
a differing thought:
nephele:
1) a cloud
a) used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness the difference is subtle, as one is a plural of the primary here is the primary word for "cloud" found in Heb12:1, from the Strong's Concordance, IMO the best concordance G3509
νέφος
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
this is a cloud...whether used symbolically or literally
and Paul uses this word, the primary Greek word,
to say we are all a great big cloud of witnesses
he meant both cloud and witnesses...a mass multitude.
like a swarm or CLOUD of locusts or birds
now here is 1Thes4's usage of the word...
based off of the SAME word
G3507
νεφέλη
nephelē
nef-el'-ay
From G3509; properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.
it is not a primary word.. the primary word is as in Heb12:1, Nephos(G-3509), as you pointed out IOW, we can clearly see that the Cloudiness seen in 1Thes4 is accompanied by a great returning masss of believers, verse13-16 and as shown, the primary word is Cloud, and in 1Thes4, it is cloudiness, not cloud.... many clouds... overcast.... (with returning believers) This is an interesting thought, that the cloud is the cloud that led the
Israelites in the wilderness. I'll be studying this out more. I have no doubt that one leads to the other... greater things...fulfillments etc. Symbolism but when Christ returns, every eye shall see Him... all flesh shall be changed...no hiding anything in the OT the clouds were to cover God's Glory, so no one could see Him...and to point the way exact opposite... as Christ is Coming here with the dead believers from heaven, and every eye shall see...every knee shall bow. Originally Posted by *Charis* I'm not following the thought here, Zeke. Could you explain your thought?
Thank you.  there is a specific period in Rev9 of 5 months, where a locust army flood is coming against the believers of Christ Jesus likens the end times to Noah's time, and the flood.... which was aggressive and rising for 5 months... the water level rose for 5 months... it is possible that the "shortening" of the end time temptation, that Christ taught us about, for the elect's sake, is 5 months.... and not a longer drawn out 3 1/2 years or 7 years... so, we do know a few details about Noah's time... that might bear some relevance -the length....150 days -that they were getting married (like Christ said), but to who? (see Gen6).... that is just a few... and since both fallen angels (the locust army) and 5 months are mentioned in Rev9, that is what I believe the reference is to. have great day in Christ.
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13th October 2009, 07:41 PM
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Reps: 1,702,079,835,121 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by zeke37 to each their own...
not that you will agree, but
the wintesses that Christ returns with are the dead in Christ,
1Thes4:13-16...
and they are gthered together by Christ, to those elect witnesses who are still alive at that time.
same as....
the elect from both heaven and earth...
in Mar13....
that are gathered together, just like in 1Thes4
No, Christ brings those asleep in Him with Him, the spirits of those asleep, for the dead in Christ rise first and ascend to Christ in the clouds.
Spirits united with their redeemed bodies, no longer asleep.
Then those still alive rise to meet Christ and the risen dead in the clouds in the air.
and....
the army that comes with Him from heaven in Rev19:14,
to join with the many waters of Rev19:6-8.
The previously raptured saints are part of that army that come with Christ, they are not asleep or dead as you say, wouldn't make much of an army, they caome in their redeemed bodies.
The many waters are in heaven and are as the scriptures say, not many waters but voices of many waters, Heavenly voices.
Christ is described early in Revelation as having a voice as of many waters.
I have explained this in much detail in the past with muvh scriptures showing that to be the case.
again, not that YOU will agree....
but try to keep it civil/polite when disagreeing I suppose you think that wins you points on the matter.
You never answered to your false accusations I pointed out to you last time.
Unless you do that, then we know who is not being civil /polite.  |
13th October 2009, 07:59 PM
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Reps: 1,702,079,835,121 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by zeke37 This post is so jumbled and confused how can one answer it, I have picked out a couple of things.
the angel that delivers Christ's words in Rev, is a former human, a prophet, and a believer in Christ Rev22.
It's not bibical that humans become angels, it's one of your latest doctrines that goes against Gods inspired written word.
the dead in heaven are seen through out scripture,
and they are promised to be coming back here...
they are like angels...
with bodies like angels (who were quite physical in Sodom with Lot),
not flesh and blood,
but with physical bodies non the less.
it is with those heavenly bodies
that they come back here to earth in...
with Christ....at the last trump
It is those heavenly bodies,
that are resurrected/raised to life here again,
as promised in 1Thes4 among other places.
They already have their bodies you say but those bodies are resurrected again when they come back to earth??????
there is a specific period in Rev9 of 5 months,
where a locust army flood is coming against the believers of Christ
Jesus likens the end times to Noah's time,
and the flood....
which was aggressive and rising for 5 months...
the water level rose for 5 months...
it is possible that the "shortening" of the end time temptation,
that Christ taught us about, for the elect's sake,
is 5 months....
and not a longer drawn out 3 1/2 years or 7 years...
Tribulation is for 7 years as the scriptures tell, that 5 month period is just part of the tribulation describing certain events.
The tribulation won't go beyond 7 years else none would be saved through it, who came to Christ in that time.
have great day in Christ. | | |
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