| Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed. |
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7th October 2009, 09:27 PM
|  | watchman
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Reps: 211,111,524,480,703,456 (power: 211,111,524,480,716) | | | the Lord would wonder if there would be any still "working" (for Him)
when He returns...
and according to the scripture,
one will be grinding at the mill (working),
or on the rooftops (watching),
or in the fields (working)...
and the other will be taken (by the flood of lies that comes from Satan's mouth)....
and as Zadok said,
the time is likened to the flood of Noah's time,
which is 5 months...
the Lord teaches us that the time (of the last hour of temptation/great tribulation/final week)
was shortened for the elect's sake...
and we can read of Satan's locust army in Rev9,
also being 5 months long as Noah's flood was....
but these locusts are stinging people, not killing them...
deceiving them, beguiling them, seducing them...
not a coincidence about the 5 months
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in Christ's service
c |
7th October 2009, 09:27 PM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 21st May 2009
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Please notice what Interpreter posted, he said: Jesus never mentions a rapture, either in the Gospels. or in the Revelation, given to us directly by Jesus.
He really meant to say:
Jesus never mentions a rapture, either in the Gospels or in the Revelation, it was given to us directly by the Apostle Paul.
The Gentile church was a mystery in the OT and still was in the Gospels, only when the Apostle Paul came along was the mystery revealed to him. For us to learn of the church’s doctrine and destiny we must consult his letters to the Church. Whenever Paul writes of Christ’s appearing in his letters, he is referring to the rapture. The context of his letters is the Church.
You quoted Scripture from the Gospels, specifically from Matthew which concerns Jewish believers in Jerusalem during the time of Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation that ends with the second coming. Whenever the OT prophets and Jesus in the Gospels writes of the appearing of the Son of Man, they are referring to the second coming of Christ to judge the world of their sin and to restore Israel in the Millennium. The purpose of the second coming is to judge the earth ( Isa. 26:21; 66:15-16).
Paul never has the church on earth when Christ returns to judge the people on earth and the OT prophets and Jesus in the Gospels never has the church on earth at that time. Unknowingly you are applying scriptures to the rapture when they really apply to the second coming in judgment. You are trying to mix holy water with used oil by combining the same scriptures and applying them to either the rapture or the second coming. Scriptures written by Paul apply to the rapture, OT and Gospel scriptures apply to the second coming.
At the rapture the righteous are taken up to meet the Lord and sinners are left behind.
At the second coming sinners (goats) are taken into judgment and the righteous (sheep) remain on earth to enter the kingdom in natural bodies (Mt 25:31-34; 41). 1 Thess. 4:17: Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
The above scripture was written by Paul and is the rapture, do not apply it to the second coming. 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
The above scripture was written by Matthew before the church began at Pentecost, do not apply it to the rapture. The “elect” are Jewish believers (sheep) gathered back into Israel for the Millennium.  |
7th October 2009, 10:00 PM
| | Liberalism has taken the place of Persecution.
  
| | Join Date: 8th June 2004 Location: Southwest
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Reps: 10,560,313,760,012,056 (power: 10,560,313,760,021) | | Originally Posted by *Charis*  Typically, this is seen as the rapture occurring, and the believers being taken completely out of the picture.
Another way to view this scripture is that it was the ungodly who were swept away in judgment.
While I personally believe that a pre-tribulational translation is imminent for the Body of Christ; the passage under discussion is an exhortation to Israel to be prepared for the coming of their Messiah-King.
In (Matt. 24:37-39) history is cited as an example of unpreparedness. Though some teach that the wickedness on the part of the antidiluvians will be duplicated in the days prior to Christ's return this passage brings no charge other than being unprepared and ignoring the warnings given. In like manner (Matt. 24:40-42) is a declaration of the truth that, due to being unprepared, where there may be two together one shall be taken and the other left. Those taken are taken to judgment and those left enter the kingdom blessings. Due to this truth, the Jew of that day is told to "watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
In Christ,
Tracey |
7th October 2009, 10:23 PM
|  | THAT IS WHAT I SAY
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As long as it ain't me......who cares? 
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National Israel is cursed forever
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The Scroll, the Serpent, the Law and our Salvation
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Coloss 2:14 Blotting out the against us handwriting to the decrees which was hostile to us,
And has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the stauros |
7th October 2009, 10:27 PM
|  | Senior Member
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"The proof of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" Revelation 19:10 |
7th October 2009, 10:38 PM
| | Senior Member
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| | Join Date: 4th March 2004 Location: Texas
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Reps: 242,185,112,465,767,904 (power: 242,185,112,465,778) | | | As for what Paul said, you know what St. Pterer said about Paul don't you :
"...our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction... (2 Peter 3:15-16)
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"The proof of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" Revelation 19:10 |
8th October 2009, 02:59 AM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 5,011,136,274,538 (power: 5,011,136,282) | |  Kudoos to you Charis!
Hi Charis,
You are to be commended for studying these most important subjects. Satan is hard at work trying to keep believers in the dark and misleading
them when it comes to these endtimes and Christ second coming.
May God put His loving arms around you, the Holy Angels protect you, and the Holy Spirit guide and comfort you as we travel salvation's highway to our heavenly home.
Your brother in Christ,
Doc |
8th October 2009, 04:05 AM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 26th November 2008
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Reps: 1,702,079,835,121 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by *Charis* 1 Thess. 4:17:
Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Yes, always be with Him, in the clouds in the heavens.
I heard the analogy of 'meeting the Lord in the air' explained this way...
Suppose a friend is flying in to visit you. You meet them at the airport
and they finish their trip to your house, with you.
Meeting a friend at the airport (on the earth) is not the same as meeting Christ in the clouds in the air (Heavens)
Likewise, when Jesus returns to earth, we will meet Him in the air, and return with Him.
At the moment we arrive in earth, all the 'offending' will have been gathered and judged.
Our 'meeting' Jesus as He is on His way to earth to rule and reign is a 'one part' action, as
I understand it. Make up your mind, do we meet Him at the airport on earth, or do we meet Him in the air where the clouds are?
Jesus say's we meet Him where the clouds are.
Of course if there is bad weather the airport could be cloudy. |
8th October 2009, 10:10 AM
|  | χάρις~ because of Grace
 
| | Join Date: 17th August 2009
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,784) | | Originally Posted by thecountrydoc Hi Charis,
You are to be commended for studying these most important subjects. Satan is hard at work trying to keep believers in the dark and misleading
them when it comes to these endtimes and Christ second coming.
May God put His loving arms around you, the Holy Angels protect you, and the Holy Spirit guide and comfort you as we travel salvation's highway to our heavenly home.
Your brother in Christ,
Doc
Thank you, Doc. While our salvation doesn't depend on our 'endtime'
views, our endtime views effect our eternal outlook.
Thank you for your input here... God bless!
__________________ It is said of Jesus, 'He found His rest in loving you...'
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Our rest is complete~ Jesus' strength is made perfect
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8th October 2009, 10:19 AM
| | χάρις~ because of Grace
| | Join Date: 17th August 2009
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,784) | | Originally Posted by get it right Make up your mind, do we meet Him at the airport on earth, or do we meet Him in the air where the clouds are?
Jesus say's we meet Him where the clouds are.
Of course if there is bad weather the airport could be cloudy.
You're missing my point. Of course we aren't meeting Jesus at the
airport. But we ARE meeting Him in the clouds as He is on His way
to the earth. It's like running out to the car to meet a loved person
who has come to visit you, and you walk into your house with this
person. They have completed their trip to their destination... your
home. My .02. 
__________________ It is said of Jesus, 'He found His rest in loving you...'
~*~
Our rest is complete~ Jesus' strength is made perfect
in my weakness.
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