Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
I imagine this could be a difficult issue for some Christians, but does the Bible really say death is a punishment for sin?
yes.
Originally Posted by Romans 5:12-18
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned—
13sin was indeed in the world before the law, but sin is not reckoned when there is no law.
14Yet death exercised dominion from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who is a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man’s trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many.
16And the free gift is not like the effect of the one man’s sin. For the judgement following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification.
17If, because of the one man’s trespass, death exercised dominion through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness exercise dominion in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.
I imagine this could be a difficult issue for some Christians, but does the Bible really say death is a punishment for sin? You could read the story of the Curse in terms of God stopping Adam from becoming like one of them - another immortal god. After all, Adam and Eve were banished from the garden before they had a chance to eat from the tree of everlasting life.
Genesis 2:17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
Mike, your comment spookily reminds me of the words of the serpent when he said to Eve, Gen 3:1b "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" By mixing truth with a lie he craftily enticed Eve into disobeying God. Sadly many Christians are taking this poisonous fruit leading them into false belief of evolution.
Scripture does clearly indicate that God created the world without death (and suffering and thorns, etc). Two verses, Gen 1:12,31 quote God, as saying His creation was "very good". New testament books such as Romans and Hebrews talk about how sin and death came into the world using examples of the first Adam and the last Adam (Christ), etc.
Death, sin, and forgiveness need not be a difficult issue for Christians because the bible is clear and has a consistent message throughout on this matter. It is devastating the numbers of Christians who literally believe the bible by the Evolution doctrine of man that has been propagated in the last 150 years. It is especially eroding the faith of young people around age 16 or so when evolutionary teaching in the schools kicks into high gear. It is interesting that evolutionary apologists find their doctrine to become especially effective when they can find Christians to espouse their scientific beliefs. It makes fundamental Christianity virtually indefensible.
Genesis 2:17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
Mike, your comment spookily reminds me of the words of the serpent when he said to Eve, Gen 3:1b "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" By mixing truth with a lie he craftily enticed Eve into disobeying God. Sadly many Christians are taking this poisonous fruit leading them into false belief of evolution.
The verse you quote could very well have been an idle threat. Adam and Eve were not poisoned. If death was not already part of life, why was there a tree of everlasting life?
Scripture does clearly indicate that God created the world without death (and suffering and thorns, etc). Two verses, Gen 1:12,31 quote God, as saying His creation was "very good". New testament books such as Romans and Hebrews talk about how sin and death came into the world using examples of the first Adam and the last Adam (Christ), etc.
Death, sin, and forgiveness need not be a difficult issue for Christians because the bible is clear and has a consistent message throughout on this matter. It is devastating the numbers of Christians who literally believe the bible by the Evolution doctrine of man that has been propagated in the last 150 years. It is especially eroding the faith of young people around age 16 or so when evolutionary teaching in the schools kicks into high gear. It is interesting that evolutionary apologists find their doctrine to become especially effective when they can find Christians to espouse their scientific beliefs. It makes fundamental Christianity virtually indefensible.
You have first to ask yourself why God might have planted these two trees in the garden.
Genesis 2:9
In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I think the idea arose as an explanation for the state of the world as it was. Man was made in the image of God (or some people might say God was created in the image of man). One way or the other, the possibility of God creating a world that was not perfect for man seemed unlikely, yet death and suffering were already part of the world, so an explanation had to be found.
The story tells how human beings gained their knowledge of the world and their ability to distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' - all attributes other animals don't have. The story also highlights man's natural disposition to feel guilt and his inclination to blame other people (Adam blames Eve and Eve blames the serpent).
In this interpretation, the planting of the two trees, which at first sight seems a very odd thing for God to have done, can be seen as an absolutely essential part of the story.
People do feel guilt, but for me the concept of original sin is totally absurd. I can understand Christians seeking personal redemption, but some extremists, such as young earth creationists, become so obsessed by sin they teach that the Curse resulted in universal degeneration, which is clearly a grotesque misreading of Genesis 2.
Death is actually an essential part of the living world. When God said "go forth and multiply", population growth would have been exponential and eventually a limit would be reached. What was supposed to happen then? Besides, death is always preceded by birth and renewal.
I should tell you that, based on the evidence, I fully accept the evolutionary origins of man. Biological evolution is not a 'doctrine' or a 'belief system' - it is a genuine scientific discipline with a very solid foundation. Fundamental Christianity, particularly of the young earth variety, is indefensible and I fight it because it is riddled with pseudoscience, lies and deceit. I fear it will take us back to the Dark Ages.
Man is petrified of the judgment to come for their sins so ________ gives them the out of not being accountable to a loving but just God.
pop quiz: what fits this blank better than "evolution"?
"atheism".
"evolution" does not fit at all since it does not remove accountability for sins. There is no "out" provided with evolution and I don't know why anyone would think there is.
__________________ The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
"evolution" does not fit at all since it does not remove accountability for sins. There is no "out" provided with evolution and I don't know why anyone would think there is.
i don't see how atheism fits either. I was going for something else
i don't see how atheism fits either. I was going for something else
Well I don't know that it is a good fit. I don't think, for example, that most atheists are petrified by a fear of judgment or that such a fear motivates people to become or remain atheists.
But atheism does eliminate the concept of God and therefore any need to be accountable to God.
And the question only asked what fit better than "evolution".
You may have an even better idea.
__________________ The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
Just had a wonderful Thanksgiving with my daughter and her family complete with homemade bread. That's not a skill you see in many young folk these days and it makes me proud that I passed it on successfully from my mother and grandmother.
__________________ The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
Linear Mode
