Be true to yourself

RoyWM · #1 4th October 2009, 12:02 PM

We should try to avoid entangling associations with ungodly people who would influence us adversely for their own purposes. For they will certainly pull us down to their own level as though they could deceive us of their flawed natures. As their numbers increase so will the boldness of the wicked to embrace greater wickedness.

Thus they will never be satisfied though they have corrupted everything around them that was good: including their own family members and friends. They are a blot on the human race yet they seek social acceptance of their abominable ways through influence over those who are weak and faithless in our society.

We should protect our good character from these dissemblers and revelers in evil. We should reject their amoral humanistic philosophies and relativistic thinking for in those things is a doorway to hell for those who come under their persuasive power. God has judged these godless men and women by His Word and they shall have no place in His Kingdom. Neither should we give them any place or comfort among us by accepting their sins.

The righteous should always be careful how they live their lives before the world for the unsaved of this world watch the righteous because they are not like them. They watch us and sometimes learn what God allows, but if we become like those who are in the world then the unsaved shall have learned nothing from us.

"Do all things without murmuring and arguing, so that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, in which you shine like stars in the world." (Philippians 2:14-15)

Tangible · #2 7th October 2009, 01:43 PM

Be true to myself? I'd rather be true to God.

How can we learn what it is to suffer for the sake of Christ if we isolate ourselves in little holy huddles? Do we truly love our neighbor as ourselves when we refuse to expose our hearts to the lost because of the possibility of pain by their rejection and ridicule?

Avoiding entangling associations with ungodly people would probably lead to a more peaceful, happier life. Unfortunately, as children of God we are not called to a peaceful, happy life, but to a life of sacrifice and suffering.

We are called to be salt and light, to suffer at the hands of the world as Christ suffered, and to be in the world but not of the world.

John 17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Philippians 1:27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not frightened in anything by your opponents. This is a clear sign to them of their destruction, but of your salvation, and that from God. 29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, 30 engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had and now hear that I still have.

Matthew 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

32 “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. 36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

John 6:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

Acts 14:21 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Therefore when we could bear it no longer, we were willing to be left behind at Athens alone, 2 and we sent Timothy, our brother and God's coworker in the gospel of Christ, to establish and exhort you in your faith, 3 that no one be moved by these afflictions. For you yourselves know that we are destined for this. 4 For when we were with you, we kept telling you beforehand that we were to suffer affliction, just as it has come to pass, and just as you know.

2 Timothy 3:10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11 my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it

Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

All scripture quotations from the ESV - http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/

RoyWM · #3 8th October 2009, 09:13 AM

Cantate, You said:
"How can we learn what it is to suffer for the sake of Christ if we isolate ourselves in little holy huddles? Do we truly love our neighbor as ourselves when we refuse to expose our hearts to the lost because of the possibility of pain by their rejection and ridicule?

Avoiding entangling associations with ungodly people would probably lead to a more peaceful, happier life. Unfortunately, as children of God we are not called to a peaceful, happy life, but to a life of sacrifice and suffering.

We are called to be salt and light, to suffer at the hands of the world as Christ suffered, and to be in the world but not of the world."

Did I say anything about isolating ourselves from people? I said avoid evildoers who would drag us down to their level. Christ admonished to avoid associating with the wicked for that reason, but it would seem that you forgot that passage in the Scriptures in your zeal to preach down to me.

I am getting a hint of self-righteous judgement from your posts. I think you need to back off a bit.

Tangible · #4 8th October 2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by RoyWM

Did I say anything about isolating ourselves from people? I said avoid evildoers who would drag us down to their level. Christ admonished to avoid associating with the wicked for that reason,

Please show me where Christ is recorded as saying that (I'm not saying he didn't but I'd like to see your scriptural basis). There may be a few scattered statements to that effect, for the benefit of those who are weaker brethren, but those are probably very much the exception to the major theme of scripture - God seeking and saving us evildoers.

I see an overall message in scripture that we are to love the lost and to seek every opportunity to entangle ourselves with them in their daily lives so that we can be salt and light to them and show them the love of God who thankfully did not see fit to avoid entangling his own Son with us evildoers in our flesh in order to save us from our own treasonous thoughts, wicked words and despicable deeds.

Am I successful in always doing this? Heavens, no. I rarely take the opportunity to shine my light or sprinkle my salt because of fear of the reactions of others. This is yet another fact of my sinful life that I share to my shame, not to my glory. I thank God for his mercy.

Originally Posted by RoyWM

but it would seem that you forgot that passage in the Scriptures in your zeal to preach down to me.

I'm confused as to why you are attacking me personally.

Originally Posted by RoyWM

I am getting a hint of self-righteous judgment from your posts.

Funny, that's exactly what I was reacting to in your original post.

What I was actually trying to convey in my response was an attitude of self-UNrighteousness. In my flesh, I am no better than those evildoers that you castigate so viciously in you OP.

You see, these horrible, wicked "dissemblers and revelers in evil" - that's ME! In my flesh I am every bit as ungodly as they are, daily exercising my "amoral humanistic philosophies and relativistic thinking" just like every other human being out there walking around in this wide, wide world of sin.

Thank God that he has seen fit to save me (and you!) from the consequences of my past, present and future wickedness and instead give me a free gift that I could never, ever deserve - eternal life with him in blessed joy.

Originally Posted by RoyWM

I think you need to back off a bit.

This is a forum, and on forums people are allowed and even encouraged to comment on what others post. I believe I've done so in a respectful manner, even if I take issue with what you are saying. If you think I haven't, please show me where I have stepped out of line.

If you think what I wrote in response to your post is incorrect, or that I have misunderstood what you said or made false assumptions, then please show me where I am mistaken.

If you are offended that I would question your comments and assertions, then please forgive me. I meant no offense, but this is indeed a discussion forum.

If you want to make unchallenged statements and do not want others to comment or perhaps disagree with you, then maybe it would be best to use the blog post function and disable the comments.

blueanjel · #5 9th October 2009, 09:54 PM

good post RoyWM

2 Corinthians 6: 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

RoyWM · #6 16th October 2009, 11:24 AM

No Cantate, I am glad that you took the time to read and analyze my post. I am open to criticism; I would hope so for how else can I learn and improve myself?

But to elaborate on my post and perhaps to clear up some misunderstanding, I was not speaking of separating ourselves from unbelievers for how else could they hear the Gospel except we spend time among them? This was also Jesus' admonishment to us to go out into the World. Yet there are forces and powers in the World that do seek to destroy us. They have no intention of hearing the Gospel nor of allowing others to hear either. These people we should avoid.

Tangible · #7 16th October 2009, 04:52 PM

I think that's true in general, Roy. Those whose faith might be easily overwhelmed would be wise to steer clear of those who would seek to persuade them to turn away from the faith. However as mature believers who are well-grounded in our faith, I believe we should not shrink from engaging with those who might be hostile to the gospel, even if it means that we might suffer to do so.

(And I'm just as guilty as the next guy of not doing this or not doing so consistently.)

Only God knows who will and who will not eventually respond to his call through the Gospel.

Many people who have been the most active haters and persecutors of Christians over the centuries have been amazed to discover one day that God has indeed called them by the Gospel to a life of faith and repentance in Christ.

In the end, God might be able to use these passionate, bold sinners even more to further his kingdom than other nice, quiet sinners who are politely indifferent to the Gospel because they can't see their need for a Savior.

Just a thought.

RoyWM · #8 16th October 2009, 06:16 PM

Well said Cantate for if we are strong in faith then we should have nothing to fear.

Yet surely there are some people that it is better just to walk away from. I have done so on occasion when I felt the futility of my spending any more time and energy speaking with them.

There are people whom I know that would go to any means to drag me down to their level. That does pleasure them and I know that because sometimes I have responded as they wanted me to in anger. I regretted it later and felt foolish for myself, but it is too late to take back what I said.

RoyWM · #9 13th November 2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by blueanjel

good post RoyWM

2 Corinthians 6: 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Thanks blueanjel,

That was the point of my post not to become unequally yoked with those that would destroy our relationship with God. We are to do good in the World and to share the truth of the Gospel, but we must not allow ourselves to be drawn into the wickedness that they do.

Sketcher · #10 13th November 2009, 01:57 PM

How are you going to shine like a star in the world if you never associate with those in the world? Who's going to see that light?

Jesus ate and generally had a good time with all manner of sinners, including professional swindlers and prostitutes. He never sinned, but he hung around these sinners quite a bit. Aren't we supposed to be "little Christs?"