Literal creation and the geocentric model

jayem · #1 2nd October 2009, 05:05 PM

Wouldn't geocentrism be expected if the Genesis creation story is literally true? At least to some greater degree than we observe.

Depending on how you allot the days, God spent at least 4 of the 6 creation days just on our planet. The sun, stars, and all the other heavenly bodies were created in just one day, the 4th. If this is literally true, why would God then position us near the edge of a totally non-descript galaxy that was just one of billions? Suppose I was an artist doing a series of paintings for an exhibiton. I dashed off most of them quickly, but one work consumed 2/3 of my time. And when it was done, I decided it was good. Wouldn't I display that work most prominently? Maybe in the very center of the gallery. Why would I stick it off in a side room? Doesn't make sense. It's understandable why the church believed in a geocentric universe, because that's a logical corollary of the creation story.

AV1611VET · #2 2nd October 2009, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by jayem

It's understandable why the church believed in a geocentric universe, because that's a logical corollary of the creation story.

Not exactly.

The earth is geoprominent --- not geocentric.

In other words, God made the earth first, then fashioned the universe around it.

The concept of geocentrism comes from science --- not Scripture.

If you go outside and observe the universe with the naked eye (or even a telescope), you'll quickly see that everything appears to circle the earth.

But when you develop tools that allow you to observe the earth and the sun together, you will see that the earth actually orbits the sun.

In the beginning, scientists taught geocentrism, and the Church bought into it.

Later, when science plutoed geocentrism, there was a transition period where the Church and science were at odds with each other --- with the Church finally acquiescing.

Cabal · #3 2nd October 2009, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

The concept of geocentrism comes from science --- not Scripture.

Incorrect. Do you want me to post the transcripts of Galileo's trial again?

If you go outside and observe the universe with the naked eye (or even a telescope), you'll quickly see that everything appears to circle the earth.

Yeah, apart from retrograde motion. Do you even know what that is?

But when you develop tools that allow you to observe the earth and the sun together, you will see that the earth actually orbits the sun.

No, when you develop a simpler model that doesn't rely on tons of pointless epicycles, you will see that heliocentrism is far simpler.

In the beginning, scientists taught geocentrism, and the Church bought into it.

Later, when science plutoed geocentrism, there was a transition period where the Church and science were at odds with each other --- with the Church finally acquiescing.

I think you mean, once the Church realised it would have to admit its mistake, it went and murdered a few people or denied them their freedom. Bit worse than anything science ever did.

I mean, of course you couldn't blame the Church for being so gullible, could you? Noooo, of course not, scientists are evil gifts from God.

juvenissun · #4 5th October 2009, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by jayem

Wouldn't geocentrism be expected if the Genesis creation story is literally true? At least to some greater degree than we observe.

Depending on how you allot the days, God spent at least 4 of the 6 creation days just on our planet. The sun, stars, and all the other heavenly bodies were created in just one day, the 4th. If this is literally true, why would God then position us near the edge of a totally non-descript galaxy that was just one of billions? Suppose I was an artist doing a series of paintings for an exhibiton. I dashed off most of them quickly, but one work consumed 2/3 of my time. And when it was done, I decided it was good. Wouldn't I display that work most prominently? Maybe in the very center of the gallery. Why would I stick it off in a side room? Doesn't make sense. It's understandable why the church believed in a geocentric universe, because that's a logical corollary of the creation story.

Good questions.

To me, only Day 4 and Day 5 are descriptions focused on the Earth, and in particular, on lives on the earth. From Day 1 to Day 3 the descriptions are about the universe. If so, then the physical earth is not a major concern in the creation at all. The major point is: the earth is a planet which is able to support all the life forms. Also, if you compared the number of life forms created in Day 4, Day 5 with that in Day 6, you may see the unbalance and the emphasis of the creation record. In my mind, the Genesis 1 is such a wonderful and beautiful "literal" description of the creation. Not a single human mind could ever figure it out as it is.

I think this is a very critical point. Because a logic implication of this understanding is that there is no life in the universe except that on the earth. So SETI can never find anything out there no matter how hard they search. Another implication, to me, is that vegetation, created on Day 3, is not counted as a life form according to God's creation, and could possibly be found on many other planets in the universe.

We may think the earth is located at the center of the universe. This is not a problem if we consider the expanding universe as proposed by most astronomers.

The Lady Kate · #5 5th October 2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Not exactly.

The earth is geoprominent --- not geocentric.

In other words, God made the earth first, then fashioned the universe around it.

And didn't think to put it in the center? He placed the most important thing in His creation over in the corner?

Even Patrick Swazye knew better than to do that:

Is it your theology that God has less of a sense of propriety than Johnny Castle?

Astronut · #6 6th October 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Lady Kate

And didn't think to put it in the center? He placed the most important thing in His creation over in the corner?

The universe has no center, nor does it have a corner. It's completely acentric. It's like asking where the center of a sphere's outer surface is; no such thing exists. The Bible does not demand that earth be at the center of the universe. Our importance to God is not dictated by where we are, for He is everywhere.