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30th September 2009, 09:01 PM
|  | Uncouth and Unenlightened Fundy
    
 | | Join Date: 29th July 2004 Location: United States
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Reps: 9,622,124,059,209,730 (power: 9,622,124,059,220) | | | "Why can't you be more like your Christ, you ----- Christian??"
We often hear an unbeliever say how he has no problem with Jesus, just his followers. Ghandi is credited with saying as much. Yet, just how legit is that argument? I mean, of course, we try to present the Gospel truthfully, clearly, and in love as well as live righteously ourselves, but in the end, are we not still Christ's ambassadors and laborers in this vast harvest field? When we witness to an unbeliever and he rejects it, does he actually have an excuse in the Bible's view?
__________________ "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt-- |
1st October 2009, 01:30 AM
| | Newbie
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| | Join Date: 20th September 2009
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Last edited by Paulsd; 1st October 2009 at 02:40 AM.
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1st October 2009, 12:31 PM
|  | Biblicist
41  
| | Join Date: 27th February 2008 Location: Ontario
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Reps: 3,394,007,686,969,080 (power: 3,394,007,686,977) | | | While there are certainly examples of Christians who dishonor the Lord with their sin, we must also consider that obedient Christians will garner the world's hatred. I'm a strong proponent of Lordship Salvation, and therefore expect nonbelievers like Ghandi to detest me.
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." [Jn. 15:18-19] |
1st October 2009, 04:30 PM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía
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| | Join Date: 29th May 2009 Location: On the back roads, by the rivers of my memory
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Reps: 727,432,821,147,579,648 (power: 727,432,821,147,586) | | Originally Posted by TimRout  I'm a strong proponent of Lordship Salvation, and therefore expect nonbelievers like Ghandi to detest me.
Just nonbelievers, Tim? /jk 
__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused.
Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity.
(All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.)
Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer.
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2nd October 2009, 05:37 AM
|  | Charismissional Anglican in an AG church
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| | Join Date: 12th March 2007
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Reps: 30,067,699,875,953,608 (power: 30,067,699,875,963) | | Originally Posted by TimRout While there are certainly examples of Christians who dishonor the Lord with their sin, we must also consider that obedient Christians will garner the world's hatred. I'm a strong proponent of Lordship Salvation, and therefore expect nonbelievers like Ghandi to detest me.
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." [Jn. 15:18-19] Free Grace advocates may not be too thrilled with you either. 
Though personally, I'm thinking the truth may be somewhere between the two: Lordship Salvation seems too legalistic, while Free Grace may be too antinomian.
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No guilt of life, no fear of death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life’s first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
‘Til He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand
Last edited by Izdaari; 2nd October 2009 at 06:01 AM.
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10th October 2009, 12:45 AM
|  | Newbie
 
| | Join Date: 29th April 2009 Location: New Jersey
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Reps: 42,256,237,674,769,616 (power: 42,256,237,674,773) | | | Unfortunately, witnessing does involve a lot of explanation about Christian behavior. Most of the time that people say things like "Christians act evil" or things of that sort, it's kind of illogical. In any other context, we wouldn't even take the person seriously (i.e., a salesman who is black comes to someone's door and they say "Black people are so mean! I know you're going to mistreat me!" That person would be seen as extremely ignorant, not "justified" in their opinion). But nevertheless, as ambassadors of Christ we must be compassionate and still work with the person.
The key is to explain that Christianity can't be judged by its followers because we are imperfect in our sinful flesh. It must be judged by the Bible and Christ Himself. And where is the malice or "mean behavior" in Christ not even retaliating against his accusers and killers? Where is the "attitude" in Him praying for forgiveness for those who spit on Him? Where is the "jerkiness" in dying on the cross and taking God Almighty's wrath for us?
As someone who witnesses toi strangers weekly, I can assure that many people do issue complaints about Christian behavior. But you can kindly explain that that is not how to judge our faith. And of course, in our own lives, we must be Christ-like! People don't see God as Holy, because His children are not acting that way! So let's all step our game up so people know we have been with Christ. God bless.  |
10th October 2009, 12:52 AM
|  | Miss Elly
 
| | Join Date: 24th August 2009 Location: Irving, Texas 75060
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Reps: 19,776,432,345,528,448 (power: 19,776,432,345,531) | | The best thing to do with these critical non-believers is to agree with them and say that yes, christians are not perfect but Christ is. Say that we're saved by grace, freely admit we need to be more like our blessed Lord. Someone I know wanted to use me for an excuse to not serve God. The spirit of God came upon me and told me what to tell her. I said, yes, maybe sometimes I do fail God about some things, but that does not mean the bible is not true. I said you will still have to be saved or go to hell. She was speechless. She got saved not too long after that. 
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12th October 2009, 06:54 PM
| | Newbie
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| | Join Date: 12th October 2009 Location: Pretoria
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Reps: 19,288,103,689,405 (power: 19,288,103,692) | | To me there are two types of Christians...I am sad to say this. You get the ones who try to live the word for the sake of living the word...these in my opinion are the true believers. They believe and live the word to the best of their abillity.
Then you get the rest. They either want people to see how righteous they are by denouncing others. Or they do it because their parents were christians and so were their parents etc. In fact, anyone who are "Christian" for reasons other than spiritual fufillment. Non believers tend to latch on to these people...for it's easier to remember the negative than the positive. This is my personal reason why I believe that non believers tend to have a problem with believers.
*pls excuse my english...it's not my first language  |
15th October 2009, 03:04 PM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 10th March 2009
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Reps: 14,682,455,275,079,776 (power: 14,682,455,275,082) | | Originally Posted by NJBeliever The key is to explain that Christianity can't be judged by its followers because we are imperfect in our sinful flesh.
God is invisible, God's followers are the only thing that unbelievers have to go on, so it doesn't matter if unbelievers are right or wrong to judge Christianity on the behavior of its followers, they are going to do it anyway and we need to deal with it.
Telling them that their objection to Christiniaty/its Followers is not legitimate is not going to help matters. Why would someone want to convert to the religion of a bunch of jerks? It's a legitimate concern.
I look at the islamic terrorists on the news and I'd be lying if I were to say that it hasn't affected my view of Islam, whether or not I'm wrong or right for doing so.
They will know we are Christians by our love for eachother. Alot of Christians (myself included) can't even show basic respect to other Christians, which makes the likelihood of unbelievers being 'wowed' by our love extremely small. |
15th October 2009, 05:59 PM
|  | Salvation is of the Lord
37 
| | Join Date: 29th September 2006 Location: Canada
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Reps: 154,244,349,522,329,856 (power: 154,244,349,522,340) | | Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks God is invisible, God's followers are the only thing that unbelievers have to go on, so it doesn't matter if unbelievers are right or wrong to judge Christianity on the behavior of its followers, they are going to do it anyway and we need to deal with it.
Telling them that their objection to Christiniaty/its Followers is not legitimate is not going to help matters. Why would someone want to convert to the religion of a bunch of jerks? It's a legitimate concern.
I look at the islamic terrorists on the news and I'd be lying if I were to say that it hasn't affected my view of Islam, whether or not I'm wrong or right for doing so.
They will know we are Christians by our love for eachother. Alot of Christians (myself included) can't even show basic respect to other Christians, which makes the likelihood of unbelievers being 'wowed' by our love extremely small.
Well said. I completely agree. In 1 John we see that love for our brothers and sisters in Christ is one of the marks of a true believer.
I would also like to add that often those who say they respect Jesus conveniently ignore much about Him such as His references to hell, calling people a brood of vipers, etc. The "Jesus" they claim to like so much is a hippie, benign, powerless weak stereotype, not the real deal, and they want Christians to be like that too.
So, should we be living holy lives for the world to see? Absolutely. Do we still battle our sin natures daily? Absolutely. But if we truly are born again, He is sanctifying us and molding our will more and more to His, and we remain repentant creatures in submission to Him. If a non-believer rejects that evidence, he is without excuse.
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