__________________ The judge and the dreamer stood face to face ... One stranded in time, one lost in space.
The tenderness and love of God our Savior has dawned in our lives; He saved us not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of His mercy. Titus 3:4-5 (Jerusalem Bible)
"What would the church be like if we erred from an excess of compassion rather than from a stingy and legalistic lack of it." - Brennan Manning To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
How can you say that redemption through Christ is the same everywhere in the universe when there are people on earth who had never even heard of him until missionaries came?
__________________ "When work seems overwhelming, remember that you are going to die" Strangely enough this motivates me.
There is one theologian who proposes that Christ's sacrifice provides the redemption regardless; should you not have had the proper chance to accept Him consciously, God knows what you WOULD have done had you been presented the opportunity.
__________________ The judge and the dreamer stood face to face ... One stranded in time, one lost in space.
The tenderness and love of God our Savior has dawned in our lives; He saved us not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of His mercy. Titus 3:4-5 (Jerusalem Bible)
"What would the church be like if we erred from an excess of compassion rather than from a stingy and legalistic lack of it." - Brennan Manning To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
So since God is omnipotent he knows whether you would accept Christ or not given the chance. So of two people who haven't accepted Christ, the one that would have gets saved?
But that kind of defeats the purpose of free will if God can decide exactly what you would do without giving you a chance to do it.
__________________ "When work seems overwhelming, remember that you are going to die" Strangely enough this motivates me.
So since God is omnipotent he knows whether you would accept Christ or not given the chance. So of two people who haven't accepted Christ, the one that would have gets saved?
But that kind of defeats the purpose of free will if God can decide exactly what you would do without giving you a chance to do it.
But he knows what you would have done. Free will doesn't preclude foreknowledge: an omniscient being would know what your decisions would be, in advance. The actions you take are still your decisions, and you are still exercising your free will when you make them, but that doesn't mean they can't be predicted.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
That seems rather a lot more like fate than anything else.
Fate is something (or someone) dictating what future actions you will take. Foreknowledge doesn't usurp your free will: it is still you, and only you, who is making the decisions.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
There is one theologian who proposes that Christ's sacrifice provides the redemption regardless; should you not have had the proper chance to accept Him consciously, God knows what you WOULD have done had you been presented the opportunity.
Salvation based on potentials is about as reasonable as punishment based on potential crimes. First of all, it becomes self-contradicting as soon as such a concept is applied.
While I agree with Wiccan_Child that "free will" is based not on what determines a decision, but on who makes it, the inclusion of potential decisions removes the making of decisions as a meaningfull factor, simple because they were not made at all.
"What you would have done, if..."
Consider, I am an Atheist. I don´t believe in God, I deny that Jesus death had any influence on human salvation or that this concept has any relevance at all. Mostly I do that because I can see no evidence for the correctness of Christianity´s claims, nor do these claims make any sense to me.
But now IF... Christianity was presented in my in a way that would show me convincing evidence and made sense to me... I would accept it. It hasn´t, it doesn´t and I personally can not think of any way that this could be done. But IF... and there should be no problem to determine such an IF for an omniscient God... I would be saved.
So I am, because such an IF must necessarily exist.
(This should present no problems if you believe in universal salvation, but if you don´t, read on.)
But on the other hand, if there are persons who are not saved, there must be a reason for that: they would be in a condition so that they would reject "Jesus' sacrifice" in every case.
So IF I could be potentially in such a condition... and the potential must be there for any "decision" to be made at all... I must also be not-saved based on that potential.
Saved and not-saved at the same time?
__________________ Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich!
Yes, your soul exists in a state of quantum superposition.
And what event makes the wavefunction collapse?
__________________ Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich!
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