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  #21  
Old 1st October 2009, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by athansor View Post
Should Samantha Geimer's words and wishes matter?

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In a word? No. Justice isn't about what other people including the victim want. It's about the actions of a seriously perverted man who was 44 when he drugged, raped and sodomized a 13 year old child. A man who after fleeing prosecution hooked up with a 16 year old (Nastasia Kinsky) and is now married to a woman decades his junior. Imagine a justice system in which a perpetrator of a terrible crime is allowed to escape the appropriate penalty based on the time elapsed or the victims wishes. That's no justice at all.
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  #22  
Old 1st October 2009, 03:20 PM
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Probably. But sex abuse in church circles (not just Catholic) is more endemic than amongst famous movie directors. I suppose that might factor into it.

Polanski's bad luck in this case, I guess, is that he's such a high-profile case. Just as a priest would be jailed, Polanski's pretty much done for because he's famous. If he'd have been a nobody, I don't think the DoJ would have been willing to spend so much time and money on getting him back.

Polanski used to be quite a devout Catholic. He took it from a woman who cared for him for a while while he was wandering around the Polish countryside as a boy. It kept him going for a while, but when he realised that despite all his praying his mother wasn't coming back, he lost his faith.

Really, I'm furious about what he did, but his whole life's story is just so sad that most of the time, I just feel sorry for him.
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  #23  
Old 1st October 2009, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Veritas View Post
In a word? No. Justice isn't about what other people including the victim want. It's about the actions of a seriously perverted man who was 44 when he drugged, raped and sodomized a 13 year old child.
Except that justice is, at least partly, about vindicating the victim - in this case a victim who doesn't want to be vindicated. She simply wants her life back, she doesn't care about Polanski either way. Yet this whole media circus involves her too. I know this is not how the system works, but it seems unfair towards her.

A man who after fleeing prosecution hooked up with a 16 year old (Nastasia Kinsky)
Kinski never had a problem with that. She never pressed charges. It shouldn't matter. In fact, she's always defended Polanski; it was Polanski who came out with the affair.

And, for what it's worth, sexual intercourse with a 16 year old isn't, or wasn't, illegal in Germany.

and is now married to a woman decades his junior.
She was twenty-two when they met. So what if she's decades younger? That's not a crime. They've been married for over twenty years. Is it so hard to imagine that love can span decades?

Imagine a justice system in which a perpetrator of a terrible crime is allowed to escape the appropriate penalty based on the time elapsed or the victims wishes. That's no justice at all.
Works that way in plenty of countries. Had Polanski committed his crimes in, say, Germany, he'd be let off the hook ages ago.
Justice can be a relative matter.
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  #24  
Old 1st October 2009, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
Probably. But sex abuse in church circles (not just Catholic) is more endemic than amongst famous movie directors. I suppose that might factor into it.

Polanski's bad luck in this case, I guess, is that he's such a high-profile case. Just as a priest would be jailed, Polanski's pretty much done for because he's famous. If he'd have been a nobody, I don't think the DoJ would have been willing to spend so much time and money on getting him back.

Polanski used to be quite a devout Catholic. He took it from a woman who cared for him for a while while he was wandering around the Polish countryside as a boy. It kept him going for a while, but when he realised that despite all his praying his mother wasn't coming back, he lost his faith.

Really, I'm furious about what he did, but his whole life's story is just so sad that most of the time, I just feel sorry for him.
Why? A lot of people suffer greatly in life but don't rape and sodomize young girls. I'm tired of people making excuses for this guy.
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  #25  
Old 1st October 2009, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
Except that justice is, at least partly, about vindicating the victim - in this case a victim who doesn't want to be vindicated. She simply wants her life back, she doesn't care about Polanski either way. Yet this whole media circus involves her too. I know this is not how the system works, but it seems unfair towards her.

Kinski never had a problem with that. She never pressed charges. It shouldn't matter. In fact, she's always defended Polanski; it was Polanski who came out with the affair.

And, for what it's worth, sexual intercourse with a 16 year old isn't, or wasn't, illegal in Germany.

She was twenty-two when they met. So what if she's decades younger? That's not a crime. They've been married for over twenty years. Is it so hard to imagine that love can span decades?

Works that way in plenty of countries. Had Polanski committed his crimes in, say, Germany, he'd be let off the hook ages ago.
Justice can be a relative matter.
I guess I'm left wondering about your moral compass.
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  #26  
Old 1st October 2009, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Veritas View Post
In a word? No. Justice isn't about what other people including the victim want. It's about the actions of a seriously perverted man who was 44 when he drugged, raped and sodomized a 13 year old child. A man who after fleeing prosecution hooked up with a 16 year old (Nastasia Kinsky) and is now married to a woman decades his junior. Imagine a justice system in which a perpetrator of a terrible crime is allowed to escape the appropriate penalty based on the time elapsed or the victims wishes. That's no justice at all.
There are statutes of limitation on many crimes in the US. Statute of limitations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you think they should all be done away with? I believe that the Polanski case is not subject to the statute because he fled prosecution, but from your post, it sounds like you want to eliminate the statutes completely.
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  #27  
Old 1st October 2009, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Antigone
Except that justice is, at least partly, about vindicating the victim
No, it's not. Never has been.

Works that way in plenty of countries. Had Polanski committed his crimes in, say, Germany, he'd be let off the hook ages ago.
Justice can be a relative matter.
Ok - and in the US, what he did was a crime. If you're going to let him off in the countries where it's legal, he has to be accountable in the countries where it's not.

You tried this sympathetic drivel in another forum and got run off - do you really think it's going to play out in your favor among a bunch of Catholics????
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  #28  
Old 1st October 2009, 05:13 PM
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You know forgiveness is great but the law is the law. We all know that. And lets not forget he was a fugitive from that law for 30 years.

What if Polanski were an abusive priest?


There's quite a conversation going on in the religion blogosphere about the contrast between the case of Roman Polanksi (famed filmmaker, accused of raping 13-year-old girl decades ago, on the lam, and now, after finally being arrested in Switzerland, winning public support from fellow entertainers and European public officials) and that of multiple priests (not famous, accused of abusing minors decades ago, etc.).

The Rev. Thomas J. Reese, a senior fellow at Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University, was first out of the box, posting an item headlined, "Father Polanski Would Go to Jail,'' at On Faith. An excerpt:
Polanski's defenders, including a 2008 HBO documentary, argue that he should not be punished. They say that the girl was willing and sexually experienced and she has forgiven him (after receiving a settlement). They even cite his tragic childhood and life as an excuse. And besides, it is ancient history.

Such arguments from pedophile priests would be laughed out of court and lambasted by everyone, and rightly so. It makes no difference that the girl is willing and sexually experienced, it is a crime. It is the role of the court, not the victim, to decide who goes to jail and for how long.

It is not as if Polanski is the only Hollywood celebrity to be accused of child abuse. Woody Allen and Michael Jackson come to mind. I am sure that with a little research the media could come up with quite a list. The Catholic Church has rightly been put under a microscope when 4 percent of its priests were involved in abuse, but what about the film industry?

The world has truly changed. Entertainment is the new religion with sex, violence and money the new Trinity. The directors and stars are worshiped and quickly forgiven for any infraction as long as the PR agent is a skilled as a saintly confessor. Entertainment, not religion, is the new opiate of the people and we don't want our supply disturbed.

Is there a double standard here? You bet.
Next up was the Rev. James Martin, associate editor of America magazine, writing, "If he were in a collar there would be no boo-hooing about his recent plight. There would be zero pity for him." An excerpt from his post, which was titled, "If Polanski Were Wearing a Collar ":
Can you imagine a petition being circulated among actors, directors and producers in the United States to have a Catholic priest reinstated in his parish after he had abused a 13-year-old child? If you believe this about Polanski--that his good deeds offset his guilt and that enough time has passed--do you believe the same about pedophile priests?
Multiple others are chiming in as well. David Gibson, writing for Politics Daily, also asks, "Comparisons are by their nature invidious. But what if Roman Polanksi were wearing a Roman collar? Would "Monsignor Polanksi" receive the same considerations?" Peter Smith, a religion writer for the Louisville Courier-Journal, wonders, "Let's say Roman Polanski was a priest who, say, fled the country and for decades avoid serving a sentence for statutory rape. Well, the question is a bit obvious. Would anyone sympathize with the end of his longtime fugitive status for his statutory rape conviction? Wouldn't people be indignant if a Catholic organization honored him in exile?" Many other religion writers are asking the same, from USA Today's Cathy Lynn Grossman, to Reuters's Tom Heneghan.

And Rod Dreher, blogging as BeliefNet's Crunchy Con, takes the argument even further, writing:
In our culture, when it comes to sex, celebrities are beyond good and evil. At least Polanski isn't a orthodox Catholic or committed Evangelical of any sort. In his cultural milieu, that would be the unforgivable sin.
(Photo, by Sebastien Bozon/AFP, shows the "Free Polanski" sign on a man's shirt at the Zurich film festival on September 28, 2009.)
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2009/09/what_if_roman_p.html
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  #29  
Old 1st October 2009, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by athansor View Post
There are statutes of limitation on many crimes in the US. Statute of limitations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you think they should all be done away with? I believe that the Polanski case is not subject to the statute because he fled prosecution, but from your post, it sounds like you want to eliminate the statutes completely.

I know what a Statute of Limitations is. And I never said to do away with them. I simply said that it doesn't matter how long ago he committed his crime; law enforcement has been trying to get Polanski all these years but none of the countries he went to would cooperate. If the Statute had run out, surely the cops would have stopped persuing him long ago.
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  #30  
Old 1st October 2009, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by athansor View Post
There are statutes of limitation on many crimes in the US. Statute of limitations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you think they should all be done away with? I believe that the Polanski case is not subject to the statute because he fled prosecution, but from your post, it sounds like you want to eliminate the statutes completely.
No.....actually it doesn't. How you extrapolated that from her post is a real mystery.
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