Unorthodox TheologyA forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Universalism"
""A spirit in endless existance, tormented by the presence of Satan.
Of course I speculating, but we underestimate what happens when we are changed, or not changed, and the idea that your step into eternal being is not permenant is fool hearty. Scripture does not speak of any holding cells, don't bet eternity on it, chose now to live.""
Wow! Where, in the Bible, do you see that one is tormented in the presence of Satan?
On the contrary, I can show you where the unrepentant is tormented in the presence of God, the angels and the Lamb of God.
And, if all are going to be drawn to Christ, that punishment can't be endless. There are about 10 Greek word denoting endlessness and none of them are used to refer to the punishment of humans. Thank the Lord.
Let me ask how you would feel to find out all will eventually be restored to God?
Let me ask how you would feel to find out all will eventually be restored to God?
He'd probably feel Joyful and happy...
How would you feel to find out not all will be restored to God?
There are about 10 Greek word denoting endlessness and none of them are used to refer to the punishment of humans. Thank the Lord.
Show us...
__________________ "So I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen."- 2 Timothy 2:10
There are about 10 Greek word denoting endlessness and none of them are used to refer to the punishment of humans.
That's because the fate of the wicked is destruction, not endless torment. BOO YAH!!
__________________
...Do not let me hear
Of the wisdom of old men, but rather of their folly,
Their fear of fear and frenzy, their fear of possession, Of belonging to another, or to others, or to God. The only wisdom we can hope to acquire Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
How would I feel if all were not going to be restored to God? I would feel confused because of what the Bible says about it.
Here are the words:
Amarantos= Unfading, Not fading away. Perennial 1Peter 1:4
Amarantinos= Unfading. Composed of amaranth. A flower so called because it never withers or fades, and when plucked off revives if moistened by water. 1Peter 5:4
Akatalutos= Endless, not subject to destruction. Indissoluable. Hebrews 7:16
Aphthartos= Incorruptible. Not subject to decay. Imperishable. 1Corinthians 9:25, 15:25; 1Peter 1:4, 23; 1Peter 3:4, 1Timothy 1:17
How about the word "aionion" which is from the root word, "aion".
Let's take a look at what the Greek Lexicons and Dictionaries have to say about these fine words...
Aion- "for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age." ( Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon)
Aionios- "eternal, the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless." (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words)
__________________ "So I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen."- 2 Timothy 2:10
How about the word "aionion" which is from the root word, "aion".
Let's take a look at what the Greek Lexicons and Dictionaries have to say about these fine words...
Aion- "for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age." ( Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon)
Aionios- "eternal, the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless." (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words)
Not everyone agrees with Strong's definition. Strongs definitions are a good tool to use in helping us understand the text better but they are not without error, a careful examination will show that Strongs definitions are more a guide as to how he thinks the word is used in scripture [ e.g. Interpretation] rather than what the words actually meant to those who spoke the Greek language at the time the text was written.
In his Word Studies in the New Testament, Marvin Vincent, D.D., Baldwin Professor of Sacred Literature at Union Theological Seminary, New York, explained: Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9, 15) said, “The period which includes the whole time of one’s life is called the aeon of each one.” Hence, it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one’s life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il v.685; Odv.160). It is not, however, limited to human life. It signifies any period in the course of the millennium, the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not “a stationary and mechanical value” (DeQuincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.…The adjective aionious in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting. They may acquire that sense by their connotation.... Aionios means “enduring through” or “pertaining to a period of time.” Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods....Out of the 150 instances in LXX, [Greek Old Testament] four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances, see Gen. xlviii. 4; Num. x. 8; xv. 15; Prov. xxii.28; Jonah ii.6; Hab. iii. 6; Isa lxi. 17.4
(NASB) Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
These reputable and literal translations use the word “age” and not “eternal.” These two concepts are diametrically opposed to one another. They are not the same by any means. An age has a beginning and an end; eternity does not.
Augustine raised the argument that since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration both cases. However, he failed to consider that the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when aionios referred to the duration of:
Jonah’s entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days.
To a slave, aionios referred to his life span.
To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood.
To Solomon’s temple, it referred to 400 years.
To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether.
Thus, the word cannot have a set value. It is a relative term and its duration depends upon that with which it is associated. It is similar to what “tall” is to height. The size of a tall building can be 300 feet, a tall man six feet, and a tall dog three feet. Black Beauty was a great horse, Abraham Lincoln a great man, and Yahweh the GREAT God. Though God is called “great,” the word “great” is neither eternal nor divine. The horse is still a horse. An adjective relates to the noun it modifies. In relation to God, “great” becomes GREAT only because of who and what God is. This silences the contention that aion must always mean forever because it modifies God. God is described as the God of Israel or the God of Abraham. This does not mean He is not the God of Gentiles or the God of you and me. Though He is called the God of the “ages,” He nonetheless remains the God who transcends the ages.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, >>> that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
In addition, Augustine’s reasoning does not hold up in light of Ro. 16:25, 26 and Hab. 3:6. Here, in both cases, the same word is used twice—with God and with something temporal. “In accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian, yet manifested now…according to the injunction of the eonian God” (Ro. 16:25, 26 CLT). An eonian secret revealed at some point cannot be eternal even though it is revealed by the eonian God. Eonian does not make God eternal, but God makes eonian eternal. “And the everlasting mountains were scattered.…His ways are everlasting” (Hab. 3:6). Mountains are not eternal, though they will last a very long time. God’s ways however, are eternal, because He is eternal.
*Hope Beyond Hell by Gerry Beauchamin
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Last edited by Tavita; 29th September 2009 at 02:42 AM.
This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Universalism"
...........
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Last edited by Tavita; 29th September 2009 at 02:44 AM.
Linear Mode
